What would you do with this experience?
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 6
What would you do with this experience?
I've never been someone who's looked seriously at a career in flying, I mostly have a skill elsewhere that involves flying. After recently talking with some people in and around the industry however, I get the feeling I might be missing out on a good thing.
Here's what I'm working with:
Ratings: Commercial single & multi, CFI
Total: 2800 (almost all pic)
~2k of that is x-c in complex
Dual given: 1200
Multi: 17
Inst: 10 (act)/55 (sim)
No turbine time.
(not sure what other stats would be pertinent)
I would prefer not to be gone more than 2-3 days, but I'll willing to move anywhere in the world (at least for a while) for a good job, don't mind learning another language or whatever.
ALSO: I have an MBA from a respectable school. I would really like to leverage it if possible, so if there was a company or situation that could use that, even later down the line, that would be preferred.
Sooo... what would you do? I'm not in any rush so I'm fine with waiting to try for a while to get in somewhere better than an immediately-available option, if its a matter of just waiting until a slot is available, or building my multi time up to whatever, or both. I have access to a multi, I can get to 25 or 50-100hrs, or whatever I need, just need to know what "whatever" would be.
Appreciate any opinions or insight. Thanks!
Here's what I'm working with:
Ratings: Commercial single & multi, CFI
Total: 2800 (almost all pic)
~2k of that is x-c in complex
Dual given: 1200
Multi: 17
Inst: 10 (act)/55 (sim)
No turbine time.
(not sure what other stats would be pertinent)
I would prefer not to be gone more than 2-3 days, but I'll willing to move anywhere in the world (at least for a while) for a good job, don't mind learning another language or whatever.
ALSO: I have an MBA from a respectable school. I would really like to leverage it if possible, so if there was a company or situation that could use that, even later down the line, that would be preferred.
Sooo... what would you do? I'm not in any rush so I'm fine with waiting to try for a while to get in somewhere better than an immediately-available option, if its a matter of just waiting until a slot is available, or building my multi time up to whatever, or both. I have access to a multi, I can get to 25 or 50-100hrs, or whatever I need, just need to know what "whatever" would be.
Appreciate any opinions or insight. Thanks!
#2
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 6
Oh, also wondering is there any website or source that would have an at least semi- up to date list of what various companies require for minimums? Pay and perks would be cool too but mostly curious what the minimums for times compared to each other are.
#3
I've never been someone who's looked seriously at a career in flying, I mostly have a skill elsewhere that involves flying. After recently talking with some people in and around the industry however, I get the feeling I might be missing out on a good thing.
Here's what I'm working with:
Ratings: Commercial single & multi, CFI
Total: 2800 (almost all pic)
~2k of that is x-c in complex
Dual given: 1200
Multi: 17
Inst: 10 (act)/55 (sim)
No turbine time.
(not sure what other stats would be pertinent)
Here's what I'm working with:
Ratings: Commercial single & multi, CFI
Total: 2800 (almost all pic)
~2k of that is x-c in complex
Dual given: 1200
Multi: 17
Inst: 10 (act)/55 (sim)
No turbine time.
(not sure what other stats would be pertinent)
Or 2-3 days at a time? Airline trips are usually 2-4 days long, with a little seniority you could hold 2 and 3 day trips at most companies. Four day trip = three nights in a hotel.
The best aviation jobs in the world are pretty much going to be here in the US, major airlines or high-end corporate. Unless you're a citizen nobody overseas will hire you unless you already have experience (usually PIC) in the exact airline type they need. Once you get that, there are jobs in Asia and the middle-east, plus a few other out-of-the-way places.
I would avoid almost any situation where you're a pilot AND an office worker. That will usually mean office salary and fly during your time off. Or fly during working hours and catch up on your real job on your time off. Basically going to mean fly for free and probably too many balls to juggle to keep it safe.
Sooo... what would you do? I'm not in any rush so I'm fine with waiting to try for a while to get in somewhere better than an immediately-available option, if its a matter of just waiting until a slot is available, or building my multi time up to whatever, or both. I have access to a multi, I can get to 25 or 50-100hrs, or whatever I need, just need to know what "whatever" would be.
#4
For regionals, the mins to get hired are pretty much ATP mins and 25 ME. Unless you have serious black marks or scare them at the interview, you're hired.
For majors the PUBLISHED MINIMUMS are typically 1,000 ME Turbine (and 1,000 TPIC for a few), but nobody gets hired that low unless they're a lucky fighter pilot, VERY well connected, or have multiple affirmative action qualifications. As a civilian you'll need about 5-8K total time, and 1-3K TPIC to be in the ballpark to get a call. That's for 121 regional TPIC, for 91/135 it's probably going to take more time and more type ratings.
#5
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 6
The best aviation jobs in the world are pretty much going to be here in the US, major airlines or high-end corporate. Unless you're a citizen nobody overseas will hire you unless you already have experience (usually PIC) in the exact airline type they need. Once you get that, there are jobs in Asia and the middle-east, plus a few other out-of-the-way places.
Airlines will give you some but not a lot of extra preference for graduate degrees. Regionals don't care, they'll hire almost anyone education or not, but majors get competitive so every little bit helps.
I would avoid almost any situation where you're a pilot AND an office worker. That will usually mean office salary and fly during your time off. Or fly during working hours and catch up on your real job on your time off. Basically going to mean fly for free and probably too many balls to juggle to keep it safe.
I would avoid almost any situation where you're a pilot AND an office worker. That will usually mean office salary and fly during your time off. Or fly during working hours and catch up on your real job on your time off. Basically going to mean fly for free and probably too many balls to juggle to keep it safe.
For regionals, the mins to get hired are pretty much ATP mins and 25 ME. Unless you have serious black marks or scare them at the interview, you're hired.
For majors the PUBLISHED MINIMUMS are typically 1,000 ME Turbine (and 1,000 TPIC for a few), but nobody gets hired that low unless they're a lucky fighter pilot, VERY well connected, or have multiple affirmative action qualifications. As a civilian you'll need about 5-8K total time, and 1-3K TPIC to be in the ballpark to get a call. That's for 121 regional TPIC, for 91/135 it's probably going to take more time and more type ratings.
For majors the PUBLISHED MINIMUMS are typically 1,000 ME Turbine (and 1,000 TPIC for a few), but nobody gets hired that low unless they're a lucky fighter pilot, VERY well connected, or have multiple affirmative action qualifications. As a civilian you'll need about 5-8K total time, and 1-3K TPIC to be in the ballpark to get a call. That's for 121 regional TPIC, for 91/135 it's probably going to take more time and more type ratings.
It sounds like my best bet would be go to regional for a few years. So question is, which one...
#6
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 21
FYI Rick, this doesn't appear correct/might be dated information on your behalf. Didn't sound right to me, so I looked up the minimums for all of the majors and ULCCs. None listed multi turbine time as being required. Spirit and Frontier are the only ones that require multi time in their mins, and they don't even state that it has to be turbine time.
#7
Meant 91 or 135, ie corporate/charter.
Airlines typically gone 2-3 nights, sometimes just one, and there are rare five day airline trips (four nights gone).
There are some who hire very low-time pilots but usually that means locals. They'll hire very experienced foriegn pilots as CA's and pair them with low-time local FO's... trying to build their bench strength.
Cathay Pacific might still hire low-time Americans as IRO's., they're unique in that they're truly an ex-pat airline... mostly US, UK, Ozz.
Regionals are your best bet then.
Regionals broadly fall into upper and lower tier, with plenty of debate as to who fits where as they've all been raising pay lately. But it could be worth working for a lower-tier regional if you can live in base vice commuting to a "better" regional. Do some reading in the APC regional forums to learn more. One other thing to consider... a few have been badly burned recently with pilot shortages so they tend to "stock up" on pilots meaning a new FO might sit reserve with very little flying for a year or more.
Probably, they'll give you a ME ATP free and a quick 1000 hours turbojet after which you can decide which path to pursue.
Cathay Pacific might still hire low-time Americans as IRO's., they're unique in that they're truly an ex-pat airline... mostly US, UK, Ozz.
Probably, they'll give you a ME ATP free and a quick 1000 hours turbojet after which you can decide which path to pursue.
#8
FYI Rick, this doesn't appear correct/might be dated information on your behalf. Didn't sound right to me, so I looked up the minimums for all of the majors and ULCCs. None listed multi turbine time as being required. Spirit and Frontier are the only ones that require multi time in their mins, and they don't even state that it has to be turbine time.
They only allow ASEL turbine time because some fighters only have one engine. If you're not a fighter pilot, they really want multi turbine crew time. It would be exceptionally rare for someone to get hired at a good major with only caravan or pilatus time, and there would probably be a good reason for it like affirmative action or family in senior management.
In this industry you cannot plan your career based on published minimums, you need to do the research and find out what the actual competitive minimums are (and it's different for mil vs. civilian).
#9
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 9
Flight hours by age
I could be wrong on this but I’ve come under the impression that the majors rack and stack based on hours logged by age. Is this correct? I’ve especially heard this for European carriers. Here’s my stats:
34 y/o
1800 TT
205 TIC
1300 Turbine
3 type ratings
Air Force veteran (non flyer)
BS in Finance Magna Cum Laude
Some volunteer work
I believe I have most the boxes checked and am currently on the right path. Just completed my first year at 121 and on track to upgrade next Summer. Do I need to have a certain number of hours for my age? I’m a career changer. Thanks! Any advice appreciated.
Eric
34 y/o
1800 TT
205 TIC
1300 Turbine
3 type ratings
Air Force veteran (non flyer)
BS in Finance Magna Cum Laude
Some volunteer work
I believe I have most the boxes checked and am currently on the right path. Just completed my first year at 121 and on track to upgrade next Summer. Do I need to have a certain number of hours for my age? I’m a career changer. Thanks! Any advice appreciated.
Eric
#10
I could be wrong on this but I’ve come under the impression that the majors rack and stack based on hours logged by age. Is this correct? I’ve especially heard this for European carriers. Here’s my stats:
34 y/o
1800 TT
205 TIC
1300 Turbine
3 type ratings
Air Force veteran (non flyer)
BS in Finance Magna Cum Laude
Some volunteer work
I believe I have most the boxes checked and am currently on the right path. Just completed my first year at 121 and on track to upgrade next Summer. Do I need to have a certain number of hours for my age? I’m a career changer. Thanks! Any advice appreciated.
Eric
34 y/o
1800 TT
205 TIC
1300 Turbine
3 type ratings
Air Force veteran (non flyer)
BS in Finance Magna Cum Laude
Some volunteer work
I believe I have most the boxes checked and am currently on the right path. Just completed my first year at 121 and on track to upgrade next Summer. Do I need to have a certain number of hours for my age? I’m a career changer. Thanks! Any advice appreciated.
Eric
In the US there's no hours/age criteria, that would be rather discriminatory and rather obviously so.
A few majors may consider "career trajectory", where they expect you to keep moving up the lader on a certain timeline. This is nothing more than a work-around to allow age discrimination, it allows them to pass over an entire generation of older pilots who got stuck at the regionals during the lost decade and therefore did not "career progress" through little fault of their own.
But that would not apply to a career changer who starts later in life but moves up quickly (you will in today's climate).
If you're looking at the top tier majors, you'll probably need at least 2-3k+ 121 TPIC and 5k+ TT (LCA or other 121 instructor jobs will help a great deal).
But by all means apply to all majors as soon as you meet the mins, and keep the apps updated. You never when they might randomly pull your name out of the hat. Be prepared for an interview if you have apps out.
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