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Old 02-03-2020, 07:51 AM   #11  
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Absolutely and agree wholeheartedly on doing the self-eval. I try to fly as much actual IFR as I can when time allows to build that skill set. Iíve been planning to get my ATP-CTP class complete and ATP written passed before even thinking about a 121 job. Iíve also contemplated getting a ďcheapĒ type (i.e. a 500 series Citation) knock out the ATP ride. Would that be prudent before leaving my ďday jobĒ to ensure to myself (and possible employers) I can pass a ride in something more substantial than something piston?
Maybe. The downside is obviously cost and also the risk of a checkride failure (I tell folks these day to mostly avoid checkrides they don't have to take, because the ramifications of failure are so high and far reaching). I know a guy who had a legacy CJO revoked after he hooked a ride... for a seaplane rating. He should have saved that one until after probation...

The upside is that if you already have the ATP, the examiner on your regional type ride has a *little* more flexibility to retrain on the spot and rewind the ride if you already have an ATP. If he chooses to use that flexibility.

I would probably only do the ATP in advance if you do have some concerns about keeping up with the pace of a jet (a citation would be a happy speed and complexity transition on the road from props to glass jets). That would give you some comfort-zone before you quit your real job.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:28 PM   #12  
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OP,
Im guessing you are in your late 30ís?
You obviously have the discipline to dedicate yourself to a task as illustrated by your stellar checkride.
Here is a question though, how long did it take you? Any decent instructor would have started at Lesson 1.
I am not a stellar learner by any stretch so take this from somebody who knows: learning in aviation is not only about retention it is also about limited time.
Any professional training will be in a limited amount of time with a limited number of training sessions and maybe one or two allotted extra sessions.
It is not only about being able to do it it is equally about being able to learn it in the time given.
There are plenty of people out there that wash out or voluntarily resign from a Regional or a 135 because they canít hack the pace of training. Has nothing to do with skill or the ability to learn per se.
Its about ability to learn in a limited time frame.
Hope that made sense somehow.
Yes, Iím in my late 30ís and it took me about 10 months from start to finish calendar-wise, part-time. My instructor did do an evaluation on me before my training and didnít want me to start from scratch. I decided it was best if I was treated as a zero-time instrument student. I didnít want any chances of missing anything.

I had about 50 hours of instrument time including some in a sim from my first attempts, my instructor wanted to sign me off after about 30 hours of instrument training after my ďtraining resetĒ. That being said, I wanted to get more actual time and I did quite a bit of hood work with friends, I took my final successful checkride a 50 hours of instrument time after I started over.

That does make sense, and I appreciate the candid response. Iíve thought about the training in the allotted time issue, that is one of the things that does concern me. But, on the other hand Iím in aviation Mx that I donít enjoy anyway, why not at least try and get out of it, and if 121/135/type training doesnít work out, then it might be time for me to get out of aviation as a career altogether.

I know youíre no me, but if you were in my aviation shoes, what would you do?
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:40 PM   #13  
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Maybe. The downside is obviously cost and also the risk of a checkride failure (I tell folks these day to mostly avoid checkrides they don't have to take, because the ramifications of failure are so high and far reaching). I know a guy who had a legacy CJO revoked after he hooked a ride... for a seaplane rating. He should have saved that one until after probation...

The upside is that if you already have the ATP, the examiner on your regional type ride has a *little* more flexibility to retrain on the spot and rewind the ride if you already have an ATP. If he chooses to use that flexibility.

I would probably only do the ATP in advance if you do have some concerns about keeping up with the pace of a jet (a citation would be a happy speed and complexity transition on the road from props to glass jets). That would give you some comfort-zone before you quit your real job.
Wow, thatís terrible about the seaplane rating. I hate to hear that, hopefully something will eventually work out for him.

I would think most people would have some sort of concern stepping into a jet, correct? Thanks for the guidance, by the way, Itís kind of embarrassing to put something like this out there, but itís been worth it so far.
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:34 AM   #14  
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Maybe. The downside is obviously cost and also the risk of a checkride failure (I tell folks these day to mostly avoid checkrides they don't have to take, because the ramifications of failure are so high and far reaching). I know a guy who had a legacy CJO revoked after he hooked a ride... for a seaplane rating. He should have saved that one until after probation...

The upside is that if you already have the ATP, the examiner on your regional type ride has a *little* more flexibility to retrain on the spot and rewind the ride if you already have an ATP. If he chooses to use that flexibility.

I would probably only do the ATP in advance if you do have some concerns about keeping up with the pace of a jet (a citation would be a happy speed and complexity transition on the road from props to glass jets). That would give you some comfort-zone before you quit your real job.
How did said company even find out about such a bust since they ask you that before and during the interview, not after?

Unless of course he needlessly tried to be ďtoo honest ď

But yea....no unnecessary jeopardy events for me till Iím off probation at my final airline
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:02 PM   #15  
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I know youíre no me, but if you were in my aviation shoes, what would you do?
Pick a date, letís say Sept 1st.
From now till then work 24/7, take all the overtime you can get and save as much as you can.
Then drop the job that pays the least and takes the most amount of time and keep the one that pays the most in the least amount of time.
Start trading annuals and General MX work fro flight time on the owners airplane.
They can sit in if they prefer as long as you get the stick time.
An annual on a PA 28 should net you about 10-12hrs flight time.
Start studying for your CFI before you ever start training for your CPL.
Find a brutal instructor thatís will combine CPL/CFI with you.
Keep fixin and flying.
You may run into an owner that doesnít feel comfortable flying alone anymore.
Maybe youíll never need your CFI but itís a good thing to have.
Go for it, give it all you have and never look back.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:39 PM   #16  
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How did said company even find out about such a bust since they ask you that before and during the interview, not after?

Unless of course he needlessly tried to be “too honest “

But yea....no unnecessary jeopardy events for me till I’m off probation at my final airline
If you swim in the pool, some majors will ask for an update on busts, violations, or criminal issues when they give you a class date. That was what happened in this case... they asked. Presumably they would have back-stopped their questions with a FOIA request.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:20 PM   #17  
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Rick, Tired-soul, Junebug;

Thanks for taking time out to answer my questions, and, honestly give a bit of encouragement. Tiredsoul, I actually on my own airplane, so, Iím going to try and knock out the commercial by the end of April, and the ME shortly thereafter. That should give me a good idea weather Iím ďtrainableĒ in normal amounts of time. If Iím not ďtrainableĒ, Iíll formulate a plan for getting out of Aviation Maintenance and Fly just as a hobby.

Does anyone else have advice theyíd like to add? Thanks!
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:54 AM   #18  
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Since you've been on the defense side and may have connections, have you consider ISR flying? You can make good money and have an adventure to boot. Then after 10 years you'll be ready to start running the farm. Secondly, since you're family business is farming, what about ag flying? You are in MX, not sure if you have your A&P, but you certainly have a leg up over an outsider coming in. Not much IFR flying in Ag, so the busted checkrides are a non-issue as long as you can fly a tailwheel and have good stick and rudder skills. Here in CA I know many applicator/farmer families(they do both, apply for other farmers and also own land and grow). That may be the path of least resistance but a very viable aviation career at that since you're in it, at least partially, and you can eventually build an aerial applicator business along with the farm.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:09 PM   #19  
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Since you've been on the defense side and may have connections, have you consider ISR flying? You can make good money and have an adventure to boot. Then after 10 years you'll be ready to start running the farm. Secondly, since you're family business is farming, what about ag flying? You are in MX, not sure if you have your A&P, but you certainly have a leg up over an outsider coming in. Not much IFR flying in Ag, so the busted checkrides are a non-issue as long as you can fly a tailwheel and have good stick and rudder skills. Here in CA I know many applicator/farmer families(they do both, apply for other farmers and also own land and grow). That may be the path of least resistance but a very viable aviation career at that since you're in it, at least partially, and you can eventually build an aerial applicator business along with the farm.

I actually have considered ISR flying, I guess the income would come in a bit quicker. Iíll talk to a few contacts that I have, that might be the way to go. I enjoyed the ďmissionĒ before.

Iíll look more into the Ag flying, too. I have quite a few contacts there, as well. I donít know why, but I guess I get a bit fixated on the 121 side of things a bit too much. Like others said, I should probably concentrate more on the parts of the industry where I can overcome my past with personal contacts and having the A and P and Avionics background.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:14 AM   #20  
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I actually have considered ISR flying, I guess the income would come in a bit quicker. Iíll talk to a few contacts that I have, that might be the way to go. I enjoyed the ďmissionĒ before.

Iíll look more into the Ag flying, too. I have quite a few contacts there, as well. I donít know why, but I guess I get a bit fixated on the 121 side of things a bit too much. Like others said, I should probably concentrate more on the parts of the industry where I can overcome my past with personal contacts and having the A and P and Avionics background.
You know I'm sort of in your boat- will be 40 this year, in aviation on the business/claims side. Fly a Cessna as part of my work(technically not professionally). I've been thinking about making the leap to pro flying and I'm running out of time. The sheer earning potential in pt 121 is a huge draw, but at this point I'd have to take a pay cut for probably 5 years tooling around at the regional, as well as be away from my family. But through my current job I see the full spectrum of aviation, from airline to ISR to Ag to UAS(RPV) to corporate. There is a lot of good flying out there outside of the airlines.

You can potentially do a mix of that- some corporate flying/ISR in a similar platform(King Air, PC-12). In fact, you can fly and manage one or 2 King Airs/CJs/PC-12 part 91 for people/companies. You can offer the full spectrum- flying it, and of course, maintenance management, which is key. I'm considering this route myself since I'm a com multi/A&P. Seems like you can make decent coin(low 6 figures). At the same time you can look into the Ag flying.

So you have options, and the family business to backstop you, so hell, look into all of the options and figure out which you like best/most viable.
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