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Old 06-22-2020, 10:32 AM   #1  
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Default To ATP (certificate) or wait...

I'm a a commercial (ASEL, AMEL, ASES) and CFI/CFII/MEI. At my current flying rate, I'll hit ATP mins in ~1 month (flying survey now). Given what'll be competitive in the current (non) hiring environment, I'm taking the CTP course on my own dime and will take the ATP written.

My question is should I continue on and take the ATP ride on my own dime as well? Just curious if the expenditure for the ATP ride is worth it, or wait until hiring resumes. I'm retired military (non-aviation) and since I didn't take time off after retiring and flying full time, I'm debating just taking a 4-5 month break from flying once the ATP written is done.

Thanks for any advice.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:03 AM   #2  
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Default ATP Certificate or Wait

Hello:

Having an ATP now is not going to give you any significant advantage over other candidates as no one is hiring other than cargo carriers and for that you will need some part 121 time under your belly.

I don't see the advantage of having to pony up the cost of the ATP ticket as hiring could take years to come back before the majors start hiring again and we begin to see movement at the Regional level

Until then, this industry has been devastated until a proven vaccine comes around and people feel its safe to travel for business and leisure

Hope this helps
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:20 PM   #3  
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Originally Posted by flyingsailor View Post
I'm a a commercial (ASEL, AMEL, ASES) and CFI/CFII/MEI. At my current flying rate, I'll hit ATP mins in ~1 month (flying survey now). Given what'll be competitive in the current (non) hiring environment, I'm taking the CTP course on my own dime and will take the ATP written.

My question is should I continue on and take the ATP ride on my own dime as well? Just curious if the expenditure for the ATP ride is worth it, or wait until hiring resumes. I'm retired military (non-aviation) and since I didn't take time off after retiring and flying full time, I'm debating just taking a 4-5 month break from flying once the ATP written is done.

Thanks for any advice.
Iíd recommend getting it, thereís hiring at 91/135 and having it makes you competitive, not having itís the vertical file.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:27 PM   #4  
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Iíd recommend getting it, thereís hiring at 91/135 and having it makes you competitive, not having itís the vertical file.
Thanks. That's what I was sort of thinking. Not so much I'm going to wait for airline hiring to pick back up, but if a 91/135 opportunity presents itself, it's one more checkmark.

The good news is that I still have GIB benefits that the wife didn't completely use for school. So the VA will pay for the CTP course, and I can just shift those funds over to the ATP ride.

Thanks again. Feel a little better.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:14 PM   #5  
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Hello:

Having an ATP now is not going to give you any significant advantage over other candidates as no one is hiring other than cargo carriers and for that you will need some part 121 time under your belly.

I don't see the advantage of having to pony up the cost of the ATP ticket as hiring could take years to come back before the majors start hiring again and we begin to see movement at the Regional level

Until then, this industry has been devastated until a proven vaccine comes around and people feel its safe to travel for business and leisure

Hope this helps
Thanks. I don't agree it'll be years before hiring begins again, and I don't think anyone really knows how long it's going to take. There are too many unknown variables.

Also, I'm not holding out for a job at a regional and I don't want to pass up an opportunity (even if the cost isn't that much) to get the ATP on my own, should other job opportunities present themselves.

I think I'll take the written and checkride on my own dime and get it done with.
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Old 06-22-2020, 03:25 PM   #6  
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If GI bill is paying for it.... why not?
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:09 PM   #7  
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If GI bill is paying for it.... why not?
I hadn't thought of the GI Bill when originally posting my question. I mentioned it to the wife in passing, and she said to double check because she didn't think she used all of it. After checking, sure enough, I have 9 months of benefits left, so it's a no brainer now.

Next is to look at what that remaining time benefit equates to. It'll definitely cover a CTP course. Wonder if what's left will cover a type as well (since I can't find anywhere that you can use GI Bill just for the ATP ride).

Thanks,
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Old 06-23-2020, 08:25 AM   #8  
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I hadn't thought of the GI Bill when originally posting my question. I mentioned it to the wife in passing, and she said to double check because she didn't think she used all of it. After checking, sure enough, I have 9 months of benefits left, so it's a no brainer now.

Next is to look at what that remaining time benefit equates to. It'll definitely cover a CTP course. Wonder if what's left will cover a type as well (since I can't find anywhere that you can use GI Bill just for the ATP ride).

Thanks,
Things have changed since I was flight GI Bill admin, but you should be able to find a 141 ATP training program which would include the checkride. My understanding is the new rules (post 9/11) are more generous with ancillary costs too.

While you're at it, try to maximize the actual ME flight time in the program. The school may prefer to emphasize ground or even sim training which has a higher margin for them but doesn't do anything for your career.

Also find out who's doing the ride. Some 141 schools outsource thier 141 EOC's to DPEs... that's fine if it's all conducted under 141. But if you train 141 and then they send you to a DPE to do a part 61 ride, that's not ideal. If they use an outside DPE, research that guy's reputation... don't take a chance if he's sketchy. A stupid piston GA bust will haunt you forever.

Ask pointed questions and get direct answers, Don't let them BS you about the checkride and other costs only to find out that it's not covered at the end. DO NOT put any money on account up front, ESPECIALLY in times like these when schools may be struggling. Many flight schools may use YOUR deposit to pay bills which are 60 days in arrears... hoping another suck will make a deposit to pay for YOUR training when the time comes (if not, they chain the doors shut, walk away, liquidate, and start a new school on the other side of the field).
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:03 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsailor View Post
I'm a a commercial (ASEL, AMEL, ASES) and CFI/CFII/MEI. At my current flying rate, I'll hit ATP mins in ~1 month (flying survey now). Given what'll be competitive in the current (non) hiring environment, I'm taking the CTP course on my own dime and will take the ATP written.

My question is should I continue on and take the ATP ride on my own dime as well? Just curious if the expenditure for the ATP ride is worth it, or wait until hiring resumes. I'm retired military (non-aviation) and since I didn't take time off after retiring and flying full time, I'm debating just taking a 4-5 month break from flying once the ATP written is done.

Thanks for any advice.
I'm doing the same. Waiting on VA approval for my 737 type rating. I don't see this as pay for training situation. I don't see paying for a ATP is really no different from paying for private, instrument, commercial, etc. It was that way for decades. It will make you stand out from others. Doesn't guarantee you a job but shows you put in the effort to exceed the minimum requirements if you go 135.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:30 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Things have changed since I was flight GI Bill admin, but you should be able to find a 141 ATP training program which would include the checkride. My understanding is the new rules (post 9/11) are more generous with ancillary costs too.

While you're at it, try to maximize the actual ME flight time in the program. The school may prefer to emphasize ground or even sim training which has a higher margin for them but doesn't do anything for your career.

Also find out who's doing the ride. Some 141 schools outsource thier 141 EOC's to DPEs... that's fine if it's all conducted under 141. But if you train 141 and then they send you to a DPE to do a part 61 ride, that's not ideal. If they use an outside DPE, research that guy's reputation... don't take a chance if he's sketchy. A stupid piston GA bust will haunt you forever.

Ask pointed questions and get direct answers, Don't let them BS you about the checkride and other costs only to find out that it's not covered at the end. DO NOT put any money on account up front, ESPECIALLY in times like these when schools may be struggling. Many flight schools may use YOUR deposit to pay bills which are 60 days in arrears... hoping another suck will make a deposit to pay for YOUR training when the time comes (if not, they chain the doors shut, walk away, liquidate, and start a new school on the other side of the field).
Thanks!

Yeah, I've gotten good at asking the right questions and gauging schools after working my way through my ratings on my own during my mil career. Finish one rating, transfer, find another school, rinse/repeat.

Going to wait until after using the GIB for my CTP course and see what I have left for benefits after that. Over half of my time is multi PIC, so not too worried about losing a few hours in a sim vs the plane. Especially if the balance of my GIB benefits won't cover the entirety and I need to go out of pocket.

Of course, could just use the benefits for something else, like a bartending course.

Thanks again!
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