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Old 11-15-2020, 10:08 AM   #11  
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One other thing- if someone could kindly look into their crystal ball and tell me when, precisely, my favored regionals with junior ORD bases will start hiring off the street again... yeah, that'd be great.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:55 AM   #12  
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... yes it would be a major pay cut initially but I've been planning for this and have enough saved to swing it for a couple of years if need be.
It's likely going to be quite a bit more than just a couple of years when you factor in the time that you'll be "sticking it out" once hired by a regional. Those quick upgrades that people recently became accustomed to were in the grand scheme of things anomalies. You may very well find yourself living on first officer pay for 5+ years (and that might be optimistic depending on what the landscape looks like in a coupe of years).
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Old 11-15-2020, 12:06 PM   #13  
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I'd say stay put where you are. When things rebound and they start hiring people off the streets, the turbine time might get you to a regional a couple of months earlier. You have to decide for yourself if the lower QoL would justify getting to a regional a few months earlier. No one knows how fast or when things are going to be back to normal.
Of course this is just my opinion and I could be wrong.

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Old 11-15-2020, 12:08 PM   #14  
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If your pension is good, f’ it—take the leap.

If it’s so-so, may want to stick around for a few more years, bank some OT, pad the pension numbers, and then you may be able to walk right into a regional again...or at least you’ll be able to more accurately judge how much time you’ll need to spend in a 91/135 job. Right now it’s a bit of a gamble.

Beauty of your position is that if you go 135 and it sucks, or if it becomes evident that you’re going to be stuck at your operation making crap $$$ for far longer than you expected, you can always fall back on those plentiful post-LE jobs.
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Old 11-15-2020, 01:05 PM   #15  
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Same kind of career switch. I am only about 10 years into my firefighting career. I was planning on taking the leap and jumping into a regional as soon as I hit my R-ATP minimums. Now I am at the minimums with a CJO and a cancelled class date. When they call I will be ready to go to training- no way to figure out how many "furloughed from other airline" pilots will jump in front of me in line- also nothing I can do to change that.

I interviewed for a local135 op. They wanted to pay me about 30% of what I currently make working 10 days a month to work 22 days a month, home based, SIC on a pc12 and CFI work.. Possibly getting to the PC24 eventually, but who knows how long it would take to get there. I ended up not even moving on in the interview process and my guess is it was due to scheduling and they knew I would not leave my current career for such a pay decrease. That company is starting their own flight school.

My plan is to rent every so often and stay current. If CFI work picks up and I can get a job again at a local school that actually has demand- that would be great. However I see no reason to invest more than I already have by giving up QOL at 135 op or CFI work for pennies when I really don't need the hours. My 172 hours are worth pennies on the dollar compared to a furloughed 121 guy with turbine PIC time. Maybe turbine SIC at a 135 is worth more, but still not close to the same value as the guy interviewing for the job I want that has already passed 121 checkrides.

Now if I can get the kid back in school I will have some extra time and I think I can start my own flight training company with a plane, possibly two so that is an avenue I am currently looking at. Maybe its because I sold my Mooney and miss owning a plane, but if there is another wave coming it would be awesome to take advantage of as many rides as possible including the regional and being in a position to take demand as students want flight training.
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Old 11-15-2020, 02:06 PM   #16  
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Thanks Rick for starting this thread for me. My newbie account won't let me start a thread.

In any event, I'd like to pose a question about regional airline hiring, and I'm especially interested in hearing from those who have been involved in hiring decisions. I'm trying to best position myself to be competitive when they do start hiring again, even if that means a year or two from now.

The short question is this- in the environment that will exist when hiring begins again, and all else being equal, which applicant stands a better chance- one with an ATP in hand and maybe 100 hours multi, or one with just a commercial but with some (say 500 hours) part 135 turbine FO experience?

The longer story- I'm a late 40s career change type. I was a CFI with airline dreams in college, got out in the early 90s when the market was terrible and my flight school went under but stayed active in GA. About 1800 hours total, all ATP minimums, working part time again as a CFI to stay current (including some multi time.) Stable work history since the 90s (big city law enforcement if that makes a difference,) 4 year degree, no DUIs or other red flags.

I'm facing a choice right now- continue working and instructing part time until things start moving again, or quitting my job for an opportunity as a part 135 FO. The rub is this- the 135 job would be low QOL (on the road weeks at a time) and would probably preclude being able to complete the CTP/ATP course, which is why this is an either/ or dilemma. I'm willing to suck it up for a year or two if that's what it takes, but if it wouldn't improve my chances, then I will just maintain present course.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Similar goals, much less flight time. I currently have 18.5 years law enforcement experience sitting at about 220hrs. TT about to start commercial training. After that MULTI COMM./CFI/CFII and then hopefully instruct part time god willing this pandemic settles down sooner rather than later. My question is are you able to retire with a full pension/medical benefits or would you have to accept a reduced benefit, that would probably the biggest factor for me as to whether or not to leave the job now or stay on a little longer. Good luck!
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Old 11-15-2020, 02:08 PM   #17  
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Similar goals, much less flight time. I currently have 18.5 years law enforcement experience sitting at about 220hrs. TT about to start commercial training. After that MULTI COMM./CFI/CFII and then hopefully instruct part time god willing this pandemic settles down sooner rather than later. My question is are you able to retire with a full pension/medical benefits or would you have to accept a reduced benefit, that would probably the biggest factor for me as to whether or not to leave the job now or stay on a little longer. Good luck!
I think your timing is going to be perfect. When you're done with your time building in 1.5-2 years the industry will be back in full swing again. (Hopefully^^)

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Old 11-15-2020, 02:20 PM   #18  
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Since it has come up- I hear a lot about how I'll be competing against all the more-qualified furloughed folks, but I wonder how big of a factor this really will be. If I'm furloughed from regional X with say 2 years on, then go to apply at regional Y, won't Y just figure I'll go back to X as soon as they call? Why would they hire someone like that? Or, if they require you to outright quit your prior regional, how many furloughees will want to do that, since once Y is hiring off the street, X is likely recalling or close to it.

This obviously doesn't apply to folks who are completely out in the cold (Express Jet for example) but I wonder how much the furlough situation will impact hiring once it starts again.

I don't know this industry as an insider, just a many-decades outside observer, but I wonder about these things.
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Old 11-15-2020, 02:35 PM   #19  
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Since it has come up- I hear a lot about how I'll be competing against all the more-qualified furloughed folks, but I wonder how big of a factor this really will be. If I'm furloughed from regional X with say 2 years on, then go to apply at regional Y, won't Y just figure I'll go back to X as soon as they call? Why would they hire someone like that? Or, if they require you to outright quit your prior regional, how many furloughees will want to do that, since once Y is hiring off the street, X is likely recalling or close to it.



This obviously doesn't apply to folks who are completely out in the cold (Express Jet for example) but I wonder how much the furlough situation will impact hiring once it starts again.



I don't know this industry as an insider, just a many-decades outside observer, but I wonder about these things.
I think that is an interesting point. Especially when it comes to furloughed legacy pilots. I would assume regionals hiring those guys would require them to give up their seniority number at their previous airline.
Also some of the furloughed pilots from regionals that have shut down may have moved on to cargo carriers like atlas or left the industry for good.
On the other hand the companies currently hiring pilots tend to require an ATP/ turbine time or to pay for your own type. Which makes me think they are receiving applications from well qualified pilots.

Hard to tell I guess how many are going to apply once the industry improves.

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Old 11-15-2020, 02:49 PM   #20  
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Since it has come up- I hear a lot about how I'll be competing against all the more-qualified furloughed folks, but I wonder how big of a factor this really will be. If I'm furloughed from regional X with say 2 years on, then go to apply at regional Y, won't Y just figure I'll go back to X as soon as they call? Why would they hire someone like that? Or, if they require you to outright quit your prior regional, how many furloughees will want to do that, since once Y is hiring off the street, X is likely recalling or close to it.

This obviously doesn't apply to folks who are completely out in the cold (Express Jet for example) but I wonder how much the furlough situation will impact hiring once it starts again.

I don't know this industry as an insider, just a many-decades outside observer, but I wonder about these things.
For starters, three regionals have disappeared altogether and if one or two more don’t go before this gets done, I’d be greatly surprised.

And fleet reductions at some of the legacies may well compel reductions at some of their affiliated regionals, just to meet scope agreements.

Then you are going to have some other career speed bumps. A lot of the senior people at regionals who weren’t furloughed will have graduated to a situation where their going to the majors just doesn’t make sense, they’d have to start all over at the bottom of a seniority list while not making all that much more than what they have at the regional with far less seniority based scheduling clout. They basically have become immobile, sitting in those regional slots until retirement.

In the meantime, 1000 pilots a year who could have been getting out of the military but instead have been waiting for this COVID to be over will all be getting out, probably 2500 or so of them.

Some - those current - will go directly to the majors or nearly so. The others will be going to the regionals for probably a year of ‘touch and go’ to get current before they go to the majors, leaving their fellows at the regional behind. Except of course by that time another 1000 military aviators will have worked off their ADSCs too.

Basically there are just too many pilots too far more qualified than you for this to resolve quickly given reduced airline sizes.

Sorry, but if that’s not the reality it will be damn close to it,

Last edited by Excargodog; 11-15-2020 at 03:18 PM.
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