Did I Make a Mistake?
 

Thread created on behalf of a new user.

Thanks for the help Rick.

Hello guys and girls,

I currently am a 25 year old with about 1100 TT, built pretty much all of the time as a CFI/CFII. My ultimate career goal is to be a Part 121 pilot. I recently took a job at Cape Air, since I didn't see the regionals coming around for someone at the ATP mins for quite some time, and I have to admit, I was burnt out of instructing. Some of us just aren't born with the patience to teach primary students! The Cape Air gig seemed pretty decent. Until I upgrade, its a slight pay cut over my instructing job, but once I upgrade, it will be more pay than I was previously making, while being able to work less as well. I was also pretty low on multi time, and this job is all multi engine flying, albeit piston powered. Really the only downside to the job is a 15 month commitment beginning once I upgrade when the company gets me my ATP. All said and done, I should be finished with the commitment Winter of 2022.

With how quickly the vaccine has come around, and sensing the pent up demand for travel, I am starting to feel like I may have made a mistake. I know this career is all about luck and timing, and a lot of that is guesswork. Nothing I can really do about it at this point anyways, just wanted to hear others opinion on the matter. This may cause me to get to 121 flying later than if I stayed instructing, but also I may be competitive to go straight to an ULCC when I'm done my commitment. I don't have any checkride failures, and I have a 4 year degree as well. Curious to hear more experienced folks opinions/thoughts.

Thanks

Too early to accurately speculate when the regionals will start legitimately hiring again. I think you make a good choice given the situation. Remember there are a couple of thousand who are still out of a job from doors closing.

We as a country are also going to have to pay the economic price for Covid-19 eventually. Make you money while you can.

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You can't always call it perfectly, and there's still a lot of uncertainty with covid. Normally I would say that if you're airline-bound, be wary of locking yourself into a contract which might hold you back from career progression but under the circumstances it's too hard to predict.

Good bet most of the regionals won't be paying for ATP's for a while, although even that's not certain.

How long to upgrade? If that's where the obligation starts, might as well sit tight and see how things look at that point. I expect we'll have a better idea by mid/late summer as vaccination closes in on herd immunity as to what the (domestic) airline recovery is going to look like.

Is the training contract connected to the ATP-CTP? The ATP checkride? Is it prorated? What’s the total dollar amount? I think there is probably room to explore and analyze contingencies that involve either paying for whatever is causing the training contract or paying the prorated portion if something exciting comes along before winter ‘22.

And as others have said, nobody can call the top or bottom of any market. Don’t beat yourself up if you don’t get in on the bleeding edge of the recovery.

Apply. You don't have a decision to make unless you get a job offer. I'm sure if push comes to shove, you can buy out of the contract.

Absolutely correct. As a 25 year old you have 40 years of 121 flying ahead of you. Get the ME time you are short on as a SIC. By the time you are eligible to upgrade explore the options available THEN before you commit to upgrade. Right now you need HOURS with multi engine better than single engine and turbine better than piston. Even the ULCCs are going to want you to have ~3000 hours.

The experience at cape air will be more valuable than you know. Unless you have a job offer from a regional in one hand and a training contract in the other I don’t see a problem here.

It's unclear at this time if the regionals care much about AMEL time. Maybe the market will drive competitive times back up to 200-300 ME, or maybe not. They might just stick with 25 hours and you get the rest in the sim.

But he can probably get a few hundred before he upgrades anyway.

At 1100 hours, concentrate on becoming the best pilot you can be—study everything, learn from captains, develop well-honed basic instrument skills; then and only then, worry about career progress. It’s a 40 year marathon, not a 2- year sprint.

Aviation can be a lot like the stock market, in that it’s nearly impossible to time it perfectly. All you can really do is best prepare yourself to move on when opportunities present themselves. Just like you should diversify your portfolio for investing, you should constantly strive to diversify your resume as well. Beyond your situation, even if a pilot can’t get on at a Cape Air or Planesense type place, branching out and getting more fodder for the resume (glider instructing, glider towing, masters degree, picking up extra duties at the flight school, etc...) will help you stand out over the CFI that just kept instructing during the downturn waiting for a call.

Imo you have made a good move going to Cape Air. Multi time in a scheduled carrier is going to give you a far better resume than continuing to slug it out in the pattern and practice area as a CFI. I think we’ll start to see improvements in the aviation industry in the next year but I think hiring will be competitive for at least the next 2-3 years.

Thanks for all the encouraging responses everyone, it seems like everyone agrees that taking this job was a smart move. This post wasn’t really for anything other than getting some people’s opinions (and maybe a bit of a peace of mind that I did the right thing). The reason for that is at this point there is nothing I can do! I already am here at Cape Air and almost done with training. The training contract is non pro rated and began the day I walked in the door. The only thing upgrading has to do with it, is that’s when the 15mo commitment starts counting down. They will however send me to ATP-CTP as soon as I meet the mins, then an in house ATP checkride in the 402, and then I’ll be flying as a captain. No wait times on upgrading, since they don’t want us as SIC’s!

In that case, your timing ought to be pretty good. Upgrade as soon as you can, build the hours, and put in apps to whichever regionals are still around. ULCCs too. By that time hiring ought to be back at a decent pace.

That’s the plan, also if the industry is really booming by the time my contract ends, it may even make sense to stay a bit longer, hit 3k hours and go somewhere like NK or F9 if possible to even bypass the regional carriers

Maybe it’s been said above.... Cape air PIC time can significantly reduce your time in the right seat at a regional down the road. When hiring booms, you could upgrade much quicker.

You didn’t make a mistake. There are MANY paths to your ultimate goal, and your ultimate goal may change anyway.
Enjoy your time at Cape Air, don’t compare your career to others, just try and enjoy what you have when you have it.

You can put another check in the "Good Choice" column. This is very much a bird in hand is worth two in the bush situation. You may not realize it now, but you are extremely lucky to land the Cape Air job in this hiring environment. The experience and flight time you will gain there will be far more valuable than time as an instructor. Not only on paper, but also in your flying skills and personal development in preparation for a 121 airline.

Having said that though, I feel I should reel in your expectations just a bit, and I only do this because you've mentioned staying at Cape Air longer than needed in hopes of bypassing the regionals and going straight to Frontier or Spirit. Do not spend a day longer at Cape Air than you need to or are obligated to. The chances of going straight from there to a ULCC are between slim and impossible. I know for a fact that F9, and I believe NK, has a *minimum* requirement of 500 hours turbine time. This is a minimum and most people who came over pre-covid had at least 1500 hours or more of turbine time. However, it wasn't necessarily turbine PIC or even 121 time. F9 hires a fair amount from the corporate pilot ranks.

With hiring at the legacies likely stalled for many years, pay scales at the ULCCs rivaling that of the legacies for similar equipment and the rapid growth/seniority gains occurring at the ULCC level, I would suspect that hiring qualifications at F9 and NK will become very competitive for at least the next 5 years or so. I certainly don't say this to discourage you, but to rather light a fire under you to keep moving in your career. Certainly put your stuff in at F9 and NK to show your interest, but don't hang your hate on an unlikely expectation. Get into turbine equipment as soon as you're able.

As another poster said... For now, just concentrate on being the best pilot you can be and don't worry about mapping out your next moves. You are currently in the infancy of your career as a professional pilot and still learning to walk. Don't worry about planning the marathons you will run in the future. As quickly as this industry moves and changes, any bridges that you plan to cross far into the future may not even be there by the time you try to cross them. Take this career one day at a time. You will be much happier for it.

I would focus on building the hours for the first few years and try not to think about the money. Who knows if you will like Part 121. The good thing is there are many different avenues you can take and what they all have in common is the more total time you have the easier things get for you.

Bumping this thread with regards to the insane recovery this industry has seen in the past few months. Out flying the line for cape air, and find the flying to be so repetitive at this company, that I’m not building the same “experience” that I was hoping. Also, the QOL here isn’t as good as a traditional 121 regional. I don’t mind the “grind”, but worry that even time here will put me behind the curve once I’m out of here since even the scheduled 135 multi pic time, is only in piston aircraft, not turbine or 121

No. If you're at Cape Scare...I kid I kid, I assume you're young. It's a paying, flying gig. Keep hacking and get your quals up and pad that resume. Take the first Turbine job offered to you. Good luck.

You still made a good choice. Things are still sporty out there. Things are not steady state, and you are in a good place while the industry is still collecting itself. Two of the big 3 as well as SWA and Alaska haven’t even started scheduling interviews. Regional flying is still getting shuffled. Where do you think you are going to apply that your flight experience is going to disadvantage you, and to whom will you have the disadvantage? Don’t let FOMO get the best of you now. You are going to walk on to any regional you want next year at this time. Just stick with the plan unless you have a CJO at your most choice employer and you have the cash to cover the training contract.

I know people with jet type ratings and part 121 time who still don’t have a job. Lots of places have announced hiring but very few have put butts in seats. There’s stiff competition to get 121 jobs currently, and unless you’re a cadet or prior CJO, very few people with 25hrs of multi time at ATP minimums are competitive. Put your apps out but keep plugging away- you’re in a decent spot.

Always a good idea. Until you are at your final employer - the one you are happy to stay with until retirement - you ought to be buffing and polishing that resume at least quarterly, and applying (or updating your previous application) anywhere you are close to meeting minimums and at any significant milestones (upgrades, check airman, added duties, etc.)

Getting on at your career major is all a matter if luck, and the harder you work at it the luckier you will be.

I thought cape had some type of flow agreement to jetblue? If so that’s probably a good deal especially if you’ve moved to base. For any other airline that’s a tough call.

Bumping this thread again. I am in the same position as the OP, I took the upgrade and I'm 3 months into my 15-month contract. Pilots are leaving this company 'en masse' and it's very hard to stay knowing that it's really part 121 turbine time I need to go to a legacy. Also, the amount of the contract wasn't discussed earlier but it's $30,000 non-pro-rated. Also, I have a class date in April for my choice regional. 1650TT. Currently getting 135 PIC multi-piston time. 27 YO. The ultimate goal is widebody Legacy.

Once again, I would like to hear opinions on making the sacrifice ($30,000) now to get on board with the seeming elevator to the top (regional then legacy).

If I paid out, I would have literally no money outside of my retirement accounts to weather another black swan... but if things continue to get better I could live off a regional FO salary. (No debt or family)

Another few options would be, getting on with a ULCC or NetJets in March of 2023 with about 2600TT and 1100 135 PIC multi-piston. This would be the most profitable route. But, my fear is that this might put me 1 year behind others getting on with regionals now and ~1000 seniority numbers... and I would still have to interview for that position vs my regional class date I just need to accept or decline.

Looking for others career choices, advice, thoughts, and maybe another option I haven't thought of.

Thanks!