Pay your dues, or don't work for cheap?
04-22-2021, 10:26 AM
#1
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Pay your dues, or don't work for cheap?
So I'm seeing a lot of conflicting advice being given to low time pilots.
On one hand experienced pilots are saying that low time pilots need to "pay their dues" and suffer through low wage, difficult and borderline abusive employment.
On the other hand I'm seeing a lot of experienced pilots advising low time pilots not to work for low wages because it brings down the industry as a whole.
So which is it?
On one hand experienced pilots are saying that low time pilots need to "pay their dues" and suffer through low wage, difficult and borderline abusive employment.
On the other hand I'm seeing a lot of experienced pilots advising low time pilots not to work for low wages because it brings down the industry as a whole.
So which is it?
04-22-2021, 10:36 AM
#2
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At each level there outliers who badly undercut their career-ladder peers.
I wouldn't tell someone not to work for a small scheduled 135 airline, that's an established niche. I would suggest they don't pay for time in the right seat
Employers generally don't care you undercut, but there are some pilots involved in hiring and some of them have been known to hold grudges. Best to acquire good SA about the industry and any jobs you're considering and make informed choices.
Safe to say, don't do commercial flying for free, ever, and don't pay to operate revenue flights. If you pay for flight training on a deadhead leg or something along those lines, that's not really an issue except for your bank account.
I wouldn't tell someone not to work for a small scheduled 135 airline, that's an established niche. I would suggest they don't pay for time in the right seat
Employers generally don't care you undercut, but there are some pilots involved in hiring and some of them have been known to hold grudges. Best to acquire good SA about the industry and any jobs you're considering and make informed choices.
Safe to say, don't do commercial flying for free, ever, and don't pay to operate revenue flights. If you pay for flight training on a deadhead leg or something along those lines, that's not really an issue except for your bank account.
04-23-2021, 08:30 AM
#3
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Posts: 560
I see both ends of the spectrum here but I believe entry level pilots have already "paid enough" just to get qualified to even apply for that first entry level job. The investment cost now vs. decades past is exponentially higher. It's time that pay be increased to a level that is on par with the investment put in to reach that job. I'm not advocating an SIC that's only required to be there because of certain regulations be paid $60k/yr, but they should be paid more than the Chick-Fil-A employee that has invested nothing to get their job. My $0.02 only.
04-23-2021, 10:39 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by QRH Bingo
I see both ends of the spectrum here but I believe entry level pilots have already "paid enough" just to get qualified to even apply for that first entry level job. The investment cost now vs. decades past is exponentially higher. It's time that pay be increased to a level that is on par with the investment put in to reach that job. I'm not advocating an SIC that's only required to be there because of certain regulations be paid $60k/yr, but they should be paid more than the Chick-Fil-A employee that has invested nothing to get their job. My $0.02 only.
Market forces at least doubled starting regional pay in just a few short years pre-covid, in part due to high cost-of-entry.
But fundamentally regionals can always pay less than a typical corporate op, because of the (mostly correct) perception that regional experience is the fastest (civilian) path to the best major jobs.
04-23-2021, 11:01 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
"Should be" is nice, but the reality is market forces and regulatory minimums (ie min wage) are what control pay. Bottom line, *somebody* is willing to do it for low wages, otherwise they'd have to raise the wages! . . .
04-23-2021, 12:57 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by QRH Bingo
I see both ends of the spectrum here but I believe entry level pilots have already "paid enough" just to get qualified to even apply for that first entry level job. The investment cost now vs. decades past is exponentially higher. It's time that pay be increased to a level that is on par with the investment put in to reach that job. I'm not advocating an SIC that's only required to be there because of certain regulations be paid $60k/yr, but they should be paid more than the Chick-Fil-A employee that has invested nothing to get their job. My $0.02 only.
Quick search shows East Coast Aero Club charges $189 for the same plane today.
04-23-2021, 04:01 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
The problem is that the cost flight has mostly kept with inflation. The Arrow I rented in 1972 to get my IR was $40 an hour, which is $253 an hour today—533% inflation. It’s never been easy or cheap. I was in small, lower tier state college,driving a Pinto, working weekends as a line boy.. Probably had a date once a month, if I was lucky. I was going to be a pilot at whatever the cost was to me
Quick search shows East Coast Aero Club charges $189 for the same plane today.
Quick search shows East Coast Aero Club charges $189 for the same plane today.
04-24-2021, 07:33 AM
#8
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Posts: 621
Everyone talks about retirements coming up and how that will affect the shortage, but what about the supply side on the bottom? I can’t imagine that the number of new pro pilots in the coming decade will be anything even close to spectacular compared to years past.
First off, COVID scared off a crap ton of new entrants, (as well as a lot of regional
FOs). Sure......today, there is a surplus but in 5-7 years I just don’t see how even the higher paying jobs won’t struggle to find pilots.
Hell....it’s much harder to get kids into cars now than it was back in the day, let alone aircraft.
Please set me straight if I’m missing something
First off, COVID scared off a crap ton of new entrants, (as well as a lot of regional
FOs). Sure......today, there is a surplus but in 5-7 years I just don’t see how even the higher paying jobs won’t struggle to find pilots.
Hell....it’s much harder to get kids into cars now than it was back in the day, let alone aircraft.
Please set me straight if I’m missing something
04-24-2021, 09:39 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
Hell....it’s much harder to get kids into cars now than it was back in the day, let alone aircraft.
Maybe the pendulum will swing, but I for for one don't have any insight on that so no idea.
04-24-2021, 10:51 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
This is a real factor, my wife had to basically cut off our oldest from rides to school (modest bike ride, long walk) to get him off his butt and get his DL... 18 months after he was eligible. A lot of kids just aren't into anything hands-on, at least more hands-on than an iphone.
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