kaputt

I’ve seen this discussed a few times over the years on this forum, but never really seen a clear opinion on what the best etiquette is.

Outside of hiring mins that are required for regulatory reasons, is it appropriate to apply for a job if you are short of the hiring mins? For example, hiring mins are 750TT, you have a little over 500TT, but do meet some of the other mins the company wants to see (instrument time, turbine time, multi time, etc... as examples).

On one hand I’ve seen people say that if you aren’t egregiously below the mins (wet commercial for example) to go ahead and apply, especially if you think you may have some experience the company would find beneficial. But on the flip side I’ve also heard/read that applying below the mins may provide a negative impression, make you look like someone who can’t follow simple instructions, etc...

So is there actually a consensus on this?

rickair7777

Could go either way.

On one hand if the system lets you apply, then maybe it doesn't hurt to get an app on file for "app longevity". But they can view ALL previous versions of a submitted app, even after it's updated numerous time.

On the other hand, as you say simple directions.

Since the odds of getting hired below published (to say nothing of competitive) mins are very low anyway I probably wouldn't chance it. Unless you have somebody on the inside who can confirm that they don't mind.

TiredSoul

Depends on the job.
Sometimes insurance requirements dictate hiring.
For a CFI position that requires a certain amount of dual given or a CFII or time in a specific airplane sure go ahead and reply but at least mention that you are aware of the fact you don’t meet the requested.
” I am aware would you kindly consider my application” kinda thing.
Are they asking for 2500 TT and 500 Turbine and you’ve got 1700hrs and only piston time then no. Then again, if the ad has been up for a while or keeps popping up then give it a shot.
As you stated it’s not an outright yes/no.

PotatoChip

I’ve done it and gotten the job...
BUT! I add a cover letter stating that “I recognize that I do not meet your posted minimums”, and something to the effect of, “please keep my resume on file for any future openings, and I will surely reapply when I meet your posted minimums should a position become available.”

That’s gotten me a call asking me reapply a few months later.

Of course, YMMV and all that.

JohnBurke

An element of suitability to the job is the effort one undertakes in learning what the job requires. That includes thorough research on the target employer(s). Included in that research will be understanding not only published hiring minimums, but the competitive minimums. These are not advertised. These are the numbers you'll need to meet to be competitive with others applying for, and being hired by that employer.

If you apply well outside that window, it may portray you as being unprepared for the job. After all, it shows that you didn't take the time to learn what you need to be hired, and that's seldom what's advertised. It's not a group of applicants who all barely meet hiring minimums, that will get hired (regionals excepted: the experience base at most jobs will be substantially higher. You need to compete with the experience level that's getting hired at that employer. If the employer advertises 1,500 hours total time, but the average new-hire has 8,000 hours, then you'll need to fall somewhere within a number relatively close to that.

If you don't meet the bare minimums for a job, you may still want to apply, after some research. Some jobs throw out a number, but may not get applicants...and may end up settling for less experience. A job may state a type rating as a requirement, but may not get type rated applicants, and may end up typing an applicant.

It's axiomatic that you cannot be hired if you don't apply. It's also often the case that if you're not close to the minimums or don't meet them, that your application may be tossed before it gets any attention.

Those who have an "in" such as an internal recommendation, experience with that company, type of operation, type of aircraft, or unique qualifiers that make the applicant stand out, might be considered ahead of more experienced candidates.

Hours by themselves don't tell the whole story. Employment history is important. This isn't only where you worked, but progress within a company, or between jobs. Too many jobs, too much lateral movement, and other things may be viewed negatively. Job hopping, too many type ratings without commensurate experience, and other such things may work against an applicant. I met an applicant not long ago who had eight type ratings, I think and two thousand hours or less. He was a collector, hiring on, getting rated, and quitting. This didn't speak well for him. He was hired, but didn't last. Conversely, it may be that the type rating for the operator where you're applying, is what gets you in. Know your target employer, know what they look for, who they're hiring, and what range of experience they'll take. A pilot with military experience might get hired at 2,000 hours where a pilot with civil experience might need substantially more; research will show what the trends and current hiring statistics are. Use this research to determine if, when, and where you should apply.

Steverin06

Howdy y'all, I would have rather made my own thread with the following question, however I'm guessing I'm below the required post count to do so. I don't want to make a bunch of useless replies and spent my time finding a thread that most closely matches my situation.

I'm a USAF fighter dude with about 1250 hours. Next summer I will have the option to deny a potentially bad assignment and separate from active duty. I will have my R-ATP by the end of the the year.

I have little knowledge on who I can realistically expect to hire me with an R-ATP. I think I read it was only the regionals, but my understanding is officially I can be hired anywhere, I just can't be PIC.

Here's the kicker - I know some airlines add a conversion per sortie to your total hours. With over 1k sorties, that would push me well above 1500 hours. At this rate I will be in a "tweener zone" for the next couple years where I won't have enough hours for an ATP, but I will have over 1500 hours according to some majors' apps using their conversion.

Do I have a realistic chance of getting a call from the majors if start submitting apps with an R-ATP?

QRH Bingo

I don’t have any inside info to provide but all the military guys I know spent 6-12 months at a regional to get 121 experience prior to moving on to the majors. YMMV

rickair7777

Fighter time, yes enough of a chance to apply and pull out all the stops. It will also depend on other resume items, ie if you're a hot runner they might go for the lower flight time.

Also depends on how picky you intend to be with majors.

But assume that you'll do some time at a regional, probably doesn't make sense to sit around for 6-12 months waiting for a call that might not come and only then realize you need regional time.

tnkrdrvr

Lowest time fighter guy I personally know of (at my company) had exactly 1500 hours. You didn’t address whether your R-ATP was multi engine or not, so I’m assuming it is. The more internal recs you have at a given company the better your odds. My guess is you will wind up doing a touch and go at a regional. However, it sounds like you have a whole year to add hours. Volunteer to help out a deploying unit or something. It’s been a few years, but fighter guys in the desert seemed to be flying significantly more than at home station.

Steverin06

Thank y'all for the advice.

Is is true that if I separate and stay in a regional for over a year waiting for a call from the majors, that I am out of being designated under the "military" pool? I have a buddy who was an intern at AA hiring in 2007 and he said that would happen, further lowering my chances. He also said they blacklisted folks for doing "touch and go's" at regionals, but that it was a very different hiring climate back then. Seems to be more (or completely) acceptable now.