Next 10 years earnings for a career changer?
10-03-2021, 07:26 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
I just want to add that all of these numbers are MASSIVE assumptions and basically predicated around a best case scenario...
As a side note, I'm a volunteer FF, I work with several full time Philadelphia FFs, they all love their job.
I find more miserable pukes up front of a jet then I do at any other job i've worked.
You have to be able to tune out the negativity.
Be prepared to be lonely.
As a side note, I'm a volunteer FF, I work with several full time Philadelphia FFs, they all love their job.
I find more miserable pukes up front of a jet then I do at any other job i've worked.
You have to be able to tune out the negativity.
Be prepared to be lonely.
If I am good with my money I can pay back all of the student loans and I will have the ATP certificate and some 121 time free and clear. At that point I could quit the regional and stay at the fire dept and try to find something part time in the 91 world until I retire with more pension
Or if it looks like things are going well and I will upgrade quickly I could make the transition and be in a good position to have the career timing work out well for me with advancement/contracts etc.
The career I have is good- I am just looking for something better- without giving up what I have until I know what I am getting is better.
10-04-2021, 11:35 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 167
Not a pilot, but I’ve been reading 5 years to upgrade at a legacy isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Maybe at a LLC, but I’ve been reading how upgrade times at most legacies are 8-10 years.
Like you I’m looking at making a career change at 39 years old. I make roughly 90k a year am curious in career earnings how much more I could make in the last 20 years at my career, that is if I can get to a regional by the time I’m 45. I luckily have the GI bill, so I can do the training with very little debt. However, acquiring the required 750 or so hours after attaining my ratings making peanuts as a CFI is my biggest fear to overcome.
Like you I’m looking at making a career change at 39 years old. I make roughly 90k a year am curious in career earnings how much more I could make in the last 20 years at my career, that is if I can get to a regional by the time I’m 45. I luckily have the GI bill, so I can do the training with very little debt. However, acquiring the required 750 or so hours after attaining my ratings making peanuts as a CFI is my biggest fear to overcome.
10-04-2021, 02:22 PM
#23
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
I just want to add that all of these numbers are MASSIVE assumptions and basically predicated around a best case scenario...
One of the problems with this career is you can have two pilots sitting next to one another up front, and one will have had a dreamlike career with no setbacks and nothing but financial bliss. Well timed hiring, contracts, upgrades, growth, etc. All of that NOTHING to do with the individual and what they did or didn't do.
The other guy has been furloughed twice, on his sixth airline, almost no savings account, and is working max hours/days every month just to get their 401k remotely in place.
One guy has a happy family and adoring wife, the other is mired in stress and driving a 16 year old Honda to and from LGA.
Nothing different in these pilots abilities or qualifications.
As a side note, I'm a volunteer FF, I work with several full time Philadelphia FFs, they all love their job.
I find more miserable pukes up front of a jet then I do at any other job i've worked.
You have to be able to tune out the negativity.
Be prepared to be lonely.
One of the problems with this career is you can have two pilots sitting next to one another up front, and one will have had a dreamlike career with no setbacks and nothing but financial bliss. Well timed hiring, contracts, upgrades, growth, etc. All of that NOTHING to do with the individual and what they did or didn't do.
The other guy has been furloughed twice, on his sixth airline, almost no savings account, and is working max hours/days every month just to get their 401k remotely in place.
One guy has a happy family and adoring wife, the other is mired in stress and driving a 16 year old Honda to and from LGA.
Nothing different in these pilots abilities or qualifications.
As a side note, I'm a volunteer FF, I work with several full time Philadelphia FFs, they all love their job.
I find more miserable pukes up front of a jet then I do at any other job i've worked.
You have to be able to tune out the negativity.
Be prepared to be lonely.
10-04-2021, 08:37 PM
#24
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by tsimmns927
Not a pilot, but I’ve been reading 5 years to upgrade at a legacy isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Maybe at a LLC, but I’ve been reading how upgrade times at most legacies are 8-10 years.
Still retirements, lots of them. When the covid dust settles, even international flying will snap back (my wife has had three planned trips canx and she's going to make up for lost time as soon as international travel becomes practical again).
Legacy upgrades will probably be under five years soon enough. Of course the timeframe for upgrade *availability* doesn't mean you actually *want* to take the first upgrade... might better to enjoy $200k+ and Christmas home with the fam rather than commuting to NYC to sit am reserve 22-27 Dec.
10-05-2021, 05:33 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 307
I’m a paid firefighter as well so I empathize with this tough decision.
I think you want a definitive “Yes, you’re making the right choice,” but you won’t get that.
Flying the same scheduled routes will never be as fulfilling as saving people and will ultimately become boring.
You’ll be overnighting with new crews often. You might get along with some of them, but firefighters have core qualities in common that make it easy for us all to become friends. It seems cabin crews are much more diverse and less likely to click. Firefighting can feel like hanging out with your best friends. Flying, you’ll likely spend a majority of your time alone in a hotel.
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
My wife doesn’t mind being home alone all night while I’m on shift. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I’m literally 2 miles away. If something went bump in the night and she really needed me, I’d be there. If I was 10 hours away and she called me screaming help, she’s on her own.
I’m hesitant to pursue the airlines and I don’t even make half your salary. I know if I stay my current path id likely leave several million dollars on the table over the course of the next 30 years (I’m 32).
That all being said, you obviously have the passion for flying. I think you owe it to yourself to give a try. You’ve set yourself up well to minimize the risk. If flying ends up not being all you hoped it would be, perhaps you could get back on with your department down the road. Just be sure to leave on good terms.
I think you want a definitive “Yes, you’re making the right choice,” but you won’t get that.
Flying the same scheduled routes will never be as fulfilling as saving people and will ultimately become boring.
You’ll be overnighting with new crews often. You might get along with some of them, but firefighters have core qualities in common that make it easy for us all to become friends. It seems cabin crews are much more diverse and less likely to click. Firefighting can feel like hanging out with your best friends. Flying, you’ll likely spend a majority of your time alone in a hotel.
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
My wife doesn’t mind being home alone all night while I’m on shift. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I’m literally 2 miles away. If something went bump in the night and she really needed me, I’d be there. If I was 10 hours away and she called me screaming help, she’s on her own.
I’m hesitant to pursue the airlines and I don’t even make half your salary. I know if I stay my current path id likely leave several million dollars on the table over the course of the next 30 years (I’m 32).
That all being said, you obviously have the passion for flying. I think you owe it to yourself to give a try. You’ve set yourself up well to minimize the risk. If flying ends up not being all you hoped it would be, perhaps you could get back on with your department down the road. Just be sure to leave on good terms.
10-06-2021, 06:09 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by DontLookDown
I’m a paid firefighter as well so I empathize with this tough decision.
I think you want a definitive “Yes, you’re making the right choice,” but you won’t get that.
Flying the same scheduled routes will never be as fulfilling as saving people and will ultimately become boring.
You’ll be overnighting with new crews often. You might get along with some of them, but firefighters have core qualities in common that make it easy for us all to become friends. It seems cabin crews are much more diverse and less likely to click. Firefighting can feel like hanging out with your best friends. Flying, you’ll likely spend a majority of your time alone in a hotel.
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
My wife doesn’t mind being home alone all night while I’m on shift. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I’m literally 2 miles away. If something went bump in the night and she really needed me, I’d be there. If I was 10 hours away and she called me screaming help, she’s on her own.
I’m hesitant to pursue the airlines and I don’t even make half your salary. I know if I stay my current path id likely leave several million dollars on the table over the course of the next 30 years (I’m 32).
That all being said, you obviously have the passion for flying. I think you owe it to yourself to give a try. You’ve set yourself up well to minimize the risk. If flying ends up not being all you hoped it would be, perhaps you could get back on with your department down the road. Just be sure to leave on good terms.
I think you want a definitive “Yes, you’re making the right choice,” but you won’t get that.
Flying the same scheduled routes will never be as fulfilling as saving people and will ultimately become boring.
You’ll be overnighting with new crews often. You might get along with some of them, but firefighters have core qualities in common that make it easy for us all to become friends. It seems cabin crews are much more diverse and less likely to click. Firefighting can feel like hanging out with your best friends. Flying, you’ll likely spend a majority of your time alone in a hotel.
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
My wife doesn’t mind being home alone all night while I’m on shift. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I’m literally 2 miles away. If something went bump in the night and she really needed me, I’d be there. If I was 10 hours away and she called me screaming help, she’s on her own.
I’m hesitant to pursue the airlines and I don’t even make half your salary. I know if I stay my current path id likely leave several million dollars on the table over the course of the next 30 years (I’m 32).
That all being said, you obviously have the passion for flying. I think you owe it to yourself to give a try. You’ve set yourself up well to minimize the risk. If flying ends up not being all you hoped it would be, perhaps you could get back on with your department down the road. Just be sure to leave on good terms.
I appreciate the heads up about the flight crew vs the fire crew. We all do have mostly the same personalities in the station, and I have a good crew right now. Cooking and socializing is a big part of the job, as are the group workouts, our gym equipment is probably better than the hotel- but as soon as covid is over we will be back at the paid membership gym anyways. So flying what is essentially a bus around and then being at the hotel by myself at night is going to be a big change.
Also I get what you say about being there in case of an emergency vs being 10 hours and two time zones away. My kids are young, but not babies anymore, and my wife is pretty independent- and I can teach her or talk through facetime anything that comes up
I think I am going to go for it- at least a year- doing both jobs and burning up my vacation- and see how it works out. If its really bad- I think I can explain quitting a regional airline after a full year if I decide to pursue aviation again, but for right now I know what I need to do
Thanks to everyone for the advice!
10-06-2021, 06:04 PM
#27
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by DontLookDown
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
Food, similar. You can pack it yourself and some people do. As a career changer I was frankly more like "eff it, I'm using my per diem and then some to eat well". It's easier nowdays with delivery services, in the old days sometimes I'd have to take a cab to get out of the airport frontage road motel / fast food zone.
10-15-2021, 05:34 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by DontLookDown
I’m a paid firefighter as well so I empathize with this tough decision.
I think you want a definitive “Yes, you’re making the right choice,” but you won’t get that.
Flying the same scheduled routes will never be as fulfilling as saving people and will ultimately become boring.
You’ll be overnighting with new crews often. You might get along with some of them, but firefighters have core qualities in common that make it easy for us all to become friends. It seems cabin crews are much more diverse and less likely to click. Firefighting can feel like hanging out with your best friends. Flying, you’ll likely spend a majority of your time alone in a hotel.
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
My wife doesn’t mind being home alone all night while I’m on shift. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I’m literally 2 miles away. If something went bump in the night and she really needed me, I’d be there. If I was 10 hours away and she called me screaming help, she’s on her own.
I’m hesitant to pursue the airlines and I don’t even make half your salary. I know if I stay my current path id likely leave several million dollars on the table over the course of the next 30 years (I’m 32).
That all being said, you obviously have the passion for flying. I think you owe it to yourself to give a try. You’ve set yourself up well to minimize the risk. If flying ends up not being all you hoped it would be, perhaps you could get back on with your department down the road. Just be sure to leave on good terms.
I think you want a definitive “Yes, you’re making the right choice,” but you won’t get that.
Flying the same scheduled routes will never be as fulfilling as saving people and will ultimately become boring.
You’ll be overnighting with new crews often. You might get along with some of them, but firefighters have core qualities in common that make it easy for us all to become friends. It seems cabin crews are much more diverse and less likely to click. Firefighting can feel like hanging out with your best friends. Flying, you’ll likely spend a majority of your time alone in a hotel.
Even the best hotel gym will lack the kind of workout equipment you likely have at your firehouse. Getting paid to workout is one of my favorite parts of the job. We also take turns cooking, so every shift I get a great dinner. You’ll prob spend less time eating good and working out when you’re a pilot. More time sitting around eating fast food.
My wife doesn’t mind being home alone all night while I’m on shift. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I’m literally 2 miles away. If something went bump in the night and she really needed me, I’d be there. If I was 10 hours away and she called me screaming help, she’s on her own.
I’m hesitant to pursue the airlines and I don’t even make half your salary. I know if I stay my current path id likely leave several million dollars on the table over the course of the next 30 years (I’m 32).
That all being said, you obviously have the passion for flying. I think you owe it to yourself to give a try. You’ve set yourself up well to minimize the risk. If flying ends up not being all you hoped it would be, perhaps you could get back on with your department down the road. Just be sure to leave on good terms.
I think DontLookDown has it figured out. I think your assumption that you will make 2-3 million more if you go the pilot route is ludicrous. What are the odds at 36 that things work out and you make it to a major in 5-10 years. I would give that 5% odds. Never forget the opportunity cost of wasted time. If you spend 5 years figuring out that professional aviation is not right for you, what happens to your daughters education funds?
Keep aviation fun and keep doing GA. Almost all the guys who do it for a living do 0 GA stuff. Think about why an airline pilot would have no interest in flying a general aviation airplane again?
Making $110k + overtime in a cheap city like Vegas as a "Fireman," is a no brainer. I'm not trying to insult your career at all, I would have become a fireman if I had a crystal ball. It is a government job with very minimal BS. You already stated all the benefits that come with your job. The medical side of your job will quickly get better as Covid ends here in a year or two.
Here is a good question to ask yourself. How stable is the airline industry? How stable is the firefighter industry? Whose to say that there is not another virus 5 years down the road? Or the EU imposes huge carbon tariffs on international flights? Automation takes it down to 1 pilot cockpits. There will always be fires and accidents.
btw: You have such a "gravy" schedule right now. You do understand that if you go the pilot route you will have 10 years of a BS schedule and miss out on your kids growing up?
10-15-2021, 06:00 AM
#29
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by NatGeo
Keep aviation fun and keep doing GA. Almost all the guys who do it for a living do 0 GA stuff. Think about why an airline pilot would have no interest in flying a general aviation airplane again?
I'm a little busy right now but plan to resume it soon enough. It's a family issue, not an interest issue. When the kids are toddlers may not be the best time, but when they're teenagers they usually dig it... they can help plan, navigate and even fly.
I did the career change a couple decades ago. There were some surprises along the way obviously but it was all worth it (had a lot of fun too). Helps if you live in base, a lot.
10-15-2021, 09:19 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by rickair7777
That's not true. I know many major and regional pilots who do GA in one form or another.
I'm a little busy right now but plan to resume it soon enough. It's a family issue, not an interest issue. When the kids are toddlers may not be the best time, but when they're teenagers they usually dig it... they can help plan, navigate and even fly.
I did the career change a couple decades ago. There were some surprises along the way obviously but it was all worth it (had a lot of fun too). Helps if you live in base, a lot.
I'm a little busy right now but plan to resume it soon enough. It's a family issue, not an interest issue. When the kids are toddlers may not be the best time, but when they're teenagers they usually dig it... they can help plan, navigate and even fly.
I did the career change a couple decades ago. There were some surprises along the way obviously but it was all worth it (had a lot of fun too). Helps if you live in base, a lot.
Do you mind sharing your personal experience and circumstances of when and what drove you to change careers? Genuinely curious as I have a "friend" that has arrived at that fork in the road
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