CC268

Hey guys,

Background: 28 years old, currently an FO at SKW - home based in PHX, which is great. Flew Part 135 for a short while and was a CFI (Gold Seal for what it's worth) before that. No failures of any kind, clean record, engineering background (worked for a large aerospace company previously). Recently had my apps and resume reviewed (Delta, United, American, SWA). Need to add Alaska to that list too I guess.

My initial thoughts have been to just upgrade at SKW and then hopefully move on to a legacy. I could upgrade at the end of this year. However, it seems like a lot of guys in my shoes are jumping to LCCs. I've been really torn on whether or not to apply to Spirit and Frontier. I think what really is preventing me is the idea of commuting to Philly or Florida. Seems like that would be a total nightmare from AZ. My wife and I just bought our first home in AZ too, so moving to Philly or Florida is not an option right now. In addition, by the time I interviewed with a LCC, went through training, IOE, etc, I wouldn't be far off from upgrading at SKW. I've been very proactive in positioning myself, hence why I've already had my apps and resume professionally reviewed. Next step will probably be to attend one of these conferences (potentially OBAP in August).

I've been flying with a ton of SKW Captains with less than ~500 hours PIC who are getting picked up at the legacies. My gut tells me stick it out, upgrade, and work hard to get to a legacy. Also with this upcoming recession, I may be in a better position at SKW than at the bottom of a LCC?

Anyways, I purposely posted this here in the Career Questions section (and not the SKW section) to hopefully get some unbiased opinions (if that is possible lol). I know a lot of Captains at SKW are not happy right now - the immediate reaction seems to be to just go to an LCC, but I think there may be a little more "nuance" to be had with this discussion. Maybe not.

Thanks.

rickair7777

Gold seal doesn't matter much, but it's one more professional ticket.

I'd prioritize Big Three over SW or AS... those two don't have retirements. They do have a lot of guppies if you're into that sort of thing.

Do not sign up for a career transcon commute. Just don't. I know a New England guy who's about to quit AS for an airline which has NY bases... he's a 10+ year CA with wife/kids/family back home

Generally... unless you're in a bad situation like sole breadwinner and care-giver for disabled family, do not linger at the regionals because of a possible recession. Long-term you're better off grabbing a major seniority number even if you get a furlough out of the deal.

In your case, yeah it might be better to stay at OO and build PIC rather than risk stagnation or furlough at a ULCC. The legacy retirements will not stop, even if there's a slowdown, their hiring will snap back with a vengeance (just like post covid).

Yes there's more nuance involved.

But the big piece of the puzzle that you didn't give us is how old are you?

If 50+ probably take the first major gig that doesn't involve a commute, or more than a short, easy commute.

If under 40, hold out for a legacy job for sure.

CC268

Thanks for taking the time to comment - very helpful. I am 28. I'm definitely leaning towards the upgrade option and getting the PIC time.

ComingInHot

I'm in the same boat as you. 26 and I will be able to upgrade in the fall. I know tons of people moving on to LCC's in hopes to get hired at a legacy. Everyone tells me to move on but TPIC time is so attainable right now, that I may as well stay for a bit longer get 500h of TPIC and then move on. With the current movement that shouldn't take long at all. I moved to ORD for that very reason so switching to a LCC I'd have to commute again and be on reserve.
You can still go to a LCC later but TPIC will be harder to get once you move on.

Excargodog

Unless there is a recession, I think all regionals are in trouble. But Republic and Skywest will likely be the last ones standing. What ought to make your determination for you is how quickly you can get eligible for your career airline and for you right now that means flight hours.
If you are senior enough you can get high block schedules where you are, that’s what I’d do. Yes, a move to a ULCC would get you another type and there is something to be said for that, but that would take another three months in all likelihood and at that point you might be on reserve for another six months to a year averaging maybe a 50-60 a month block and that after three months of little flying.

My suggestion would be to have a heart to heart with the spouse, tell her it won’t be like this forever, and just fly your butt off. Get the hours that allow you to upgrade as soon as possible. Even on reserve as a CA you’ll fly your butt off because they are CA limited. Forget vacations - even some days off - and go for 83 block a month. You’ll make better money and fly a lot more hours than you would at a legacy without a transcon commute.

Getting to a legacy even a few months earlier will pay you seniority dividends your entire career.

CC268

Yea I’m with ya. I think sticking it out is probably the way to go and that’s what my gut tells me.

ComingInHot

As far as I can tell, the immediate jump from LCC to legacy only works if you have a good amount of turbine time. If you are below 1000h it's probably best to get some TPIC first.

CC268

Thanks for the response. I agree with everything you’ve said. I think as of now I’ll just keep pushing forward. 83 sounds nice lol, I’ve been getting 90-92 a month the last two months. Haven’t had a vacation in years so that doesn’t bug me. My wife is the money maker, I’ll have to be several years in at a major before I make what she does haha.

I guess I’ll just stick to the course for now

CC268

I gotcha. The other thing I’m worried about is SKW using this GPI program to prevent captains from leaving before the two years. I just think it could get real ugly.

I heard that Delta is not going to hire anyone from Skywest but through the GPI program now. Also they won’t hire you if you jumped from Skywest to an LCC just to get there quicker. I’m not sure I believe that, but that’s the rumor.

rickair7777

I do not believe that last part at all. So many things wrong with the "hold a grudge" concept. No large company's HR or legal would buy off on that for a second.

If you VOLUNTARILY join a flow program which has a provision that you will only be hired via the flow, then yeah they can do that. But you'd have to make a conscious decision and sign something, they cannot just retroactively apply that to all current employees. You're not their property.