How to log King Air time?
 

I was recently typed in the BE300 with a PIC limitation (must be under SOE supervision for the first 20 hours).

Currently, the aircraft is flown with another PIC on board, switching flying duties every few hours.

How would I log the initial 20 hours as sole manipulator? SIC or PIC?
How would I log the time, post 20 hours as sole manipulator?

I believe the -300 is type certified for single pilot.

1. Log the first 20 as SIC with remarks that it's per the limitation.
2. After you can log PIC as sole manipulator, but I'd just log PIC if/only when I'm the guy/gal responsible for the flight. If I'm just the other guy, then I'd log it as SIC.
3. The -300 is single-pilot. If you completed the additional single-pilot items on your checkride then you can, if you didn't you'll have an additional SIC-required limitation on your ticket.

Your temporary pilot certificate came with a limitation stating that you must be under supervision for 20 hours, or your employer provided this limitation?

There is only one PIC on board. You are either the pilot in command, or you are not. The King Air 300 requires one pilot under its type certification.

If you log PIC, there's no "sole manipulator PIC. Just PIC. There are several means by which you can log PIC, and sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which you are rated, is one such qualification. You can also log PIC if you are pilot in command of an aircraft requiring more than one crew member under type certification, or the regulations under which the flight is operated (eg, Part 135, etc). It's a single pilot airplane, so the type certification doesn't require a second crew member. If your employer requires one, such as a corporate department that wants a second pilot, that doesn't qualify for a required. second crew member, for the purposes of logging PIC. Regardless, it's simply logged as "PIC."

If there is "another PIC" on board, which if you is actually in command. Who has ultimate authority and ultimate responsibility for the aircraft and the flight? If you're the pilot in command, then log PIC. If the other pilot is PIC, then you're not. If a SIC isn't required, you're also not SIC.

You haven't provided enough information about your operation, the type of regulation under which the flight or aircraft is operated, nature of your employement, etc.

There is some muddy water here but the simple answer is only log PIC time for those flights in which you are listed as PIC on the paperwork.
One other note. ALL 135 passenger ops require an SIC UNLESS the operator holds OPSPEC A015 (use of auto pilot in lieu of SIC) which applies to aircraft with 9 passengers or less.

Yes the 300 is Type Certificated for Single pilot, so provided you complete all the other training and do not have the “SIC REQUIRED” limitation on your certificate you can operate single pilot as long as the operation allows it.

And even if the operator has Opspec A015, the PIC has to have completed a 135.297(g) checkride.

Of course.

We operate under Part 91, but the company we contract with requires two pilots. So far I've only logged sole manipulator, the time when actually flying the aircraft.

General industry practice...

You can log sole man PIC towards FAA requirements, typically the ATP. Regionals will be fine with that, and FAA regs allow it.

For majors (and higher-end non-121 employers), when they ask about your turbine PIC they want actual signed-for-the-airplane PIC, ie the captain/PIC of record. They do not expect to see sole man PIC mixed up in that number. If you read the fine-print, they tend to specify that on their applications.

If it were me, I'd log sole man PIC in it's own separate column... that way you can track it while keeping it separate from your actual in-charge PIC. Sol man is legitimately useful for FAA ratings and IIRC it can also count towards required mins for federal pilot jobs (not so much private sector jobs).

Operated under Part 91, there is no legal requirement for a second pilot in the airplane. A contract does not satisfy the CFR requirement for a second pilot in a single pilot airplane.

Again, there is no such thing as "sole manipulator PIC."

You are logging PIC, or you are not logging PIC. Period.

You may log PIC if you are sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft for which you are rated. You do not log it as "sole manipulator PIC." You simply log PIC. You'll raise more questions than you'll answer if you start making things up and sticking that in your logbook, or using columns such as "sole manipulator PIC." If you can log PIC, then just log PIC.

Gotta disagree.

Airlines employers typically want a tally of "signed for the aircraft" PIC, which is distinct from sole man PIC. I'd keep it separate.

I dont agree with this at all......from a guy with 121 background and 135...if you are logging 121 time, airlines "typically want a talley of signed off..." however ANY time outside of 121 time, they will allow you to count PIC time as "sole manipulator of the controls" ASSUMING you have a PIC type rating in the aircraft being flow (not an SIC type rating). SIC type rating in a single pilot aircraft and that time is pretty much useless, no one will count that

Not in the least. Airlines have an expectation that time logged as pilot in command will be time spent as acting as pilot in command (which means one was the pilot in command), but there is no expectation that one keep separate columns in the logbook for imaginary classifications such as "sole manipulator PIC."
ht
If one wishes to keep it simple, only log time as PIC when one is the PIC, acting as PIC, sole ultimate authority for the flight.

In the airline world, one must be designated the PIC by the certificate holder, and remains the PIC for the duration of the flight. The same is true under Part 135.

For operators under Part 91, this is not necessarily the case; one may be pilot in command for half of the flight, by prior arrangement with the "copcaptain," and then swap roles. In such a case, one might log half the flight as PIC, and be within the acceptable guidelines of 121 operators. One might log the whole thing as PIC and no one would be the wiser. To log it as "sole manipulator PIC" would be to invent a classification that is not found in the regulation.

One can certainly log anything; one could create a column in the logbook for pink airplanes, if desired, though no such time classification is found int eh regulation.

If one is logging PIC under 121 or 135 when one is not the PIC, one is creating a problem for one's self. If you're not PIC, then don't log PIC.

There is a difference, of course, between logging PIC, and acting as PIC. The airlines in general are concerned with acting as PIC; the airlines want to know about time spent acting as PIC. One may log PIC, and not be the actual PIC, One may be the actual PIC and be unable to log PIC. One may be the PIC and be unable to log the time at all. Logging PIC is not the same as acting as PIC.

If one limits one's self to logging only the time as PIC when one is acting as PIC, any questions are eliminated, is the dubious and questionable practice of inventing things to put in the logbook like "pink airplanes," "sole manipulator PIC," or "time spent in flight above 500' AGL while wearing a green flannel shirt."

Of just log PIC. If one is flying a Dash 8 as a 250 hour pilot, and has a type rating given but is clearly not the captain on the flight, then it's patently obvious that one is logging PIC, but actually PIC. Make it simple and log it all as SIC, because one is the SIC. If one was flying with a buddy in his Cessna 340 and logged the time as PIC, putting it in a "sole manipulator" column only muddies the logging. Just log PIC, if you're entitled, and be done. If someone asks if you were the PIC, point to the logbook because it shows PIC, smile, and turn the page.

I guarantee nobody is going to ask you if you were really wearing a green flannel shirt when you were above 500' AGL, like the imaginary column shows, and you don't have to tell them it was really a polyester blend. Think about it.

No they don't have any expectation that you log it separately. It's more for YOUR own convenience... a typical pilot applying to multiple majors (most should) will need to update multiple apps every 30-60 days, and most of them want your times sliced and diced in different and creative ways. It can be quite the science project.

What you need to avoid is mixing sole man PIC in with in-command PIC on airline apps which specify in-command PIC.

This is inaccurate. On augmented crews, you can have multiple pilots sign the release as PIC.

Yes, my understanding is that you can have say an augmented crew where there's one PIC who remains PIC even when resting. Or you can just have a spare crew, who takes over entirely on their shift including PIC duty. Nothing says you have to be on the ground to change the PIC.

Exactly.
Thats not logging the time though.
You are “acting PIC” because the ( for the lack of a better word) dispatched PIC is on break.
You’re still to call them up though when things get serious.
”THEY” get to log the block time as PIC , “WE” get to log the seat time as SIC.
Just the way the cookie crumbles.

If you want, its perfectly legal to log that time as PIC. Bold strategy and good luck explaining that in an interview.

Funny detail, UPS asks for PIC time when nominated PIC either before or during the flight.
I know a guy hired there with counting just his relief PIC time he logged.

logbook for pilot hours and "what you claim on your airline app" indeed may be different. PIC for airline app purposes is "Aircraft Commander, Captain, final signor, final the crap-stops-here person in charge of the plane." For this purpose, the guy may not even TOUCH the controls but if he is responsible ultimately, for the safety and success of the flight, he is PIC. PIC is about RESPONSIBILITY, not yoke-holding, for airline app purposes. Yes, he must be legally qualified for that airplane.

I think of PIC as "PRIMARY in command" and SIC as, surprise, it is SECOND in command.

If it is a two seat airplane, and between the two of you, the guy PRIMARY in command is the PIC. Period, the end.

The King Air stuff is indeed a grey area. A King Air 90 is one thing, the type rating required B-350 is a little different. tread carefully and be able to articulate what you "claim" when you apply for jobs.

my two cents