Morgg1776

Hello everyone i want to keep this short and sweet I am looking for a career change and thinking about becoming a pilot for the airlines. My wife has her doubts about it because she says I will be gone a lot (I work 14-17hr days right now) and that I might pay all that money for school and not like my career choice. I don’t want to look on YouTube for any answers due to a lot of people glorifying their jobs and pay. My main questions are 1. How many days do you really have off a month. 2. Do you really get paid as much as this website says you do. 3. How many hours do you work a week/month. 4. What does your average work day look like at a regional/major. Thank you for all your help

JohnBurke

You really get paid what the web site says you do, but that's the starting point, and it doesn't work as a 9-5 job might. If the listing identifies a third-year F/O making 157/hour, that's not 40 hours a week...that's based on 65 hours a month, or whatever the guarantee is. 65 hours a month, in turn, doesn't mean you work just 65 hours, and you have the rest off. Those are pay hours. Actual time away depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which is for whom you're flying, and where you're based. If you must commute to work, that is sometimes done on days-on, sometimes done on days-off, but is typically outside the scope of your flying, so it's extra time spent away from home. Some companies, collectively referred to as "ACMI operators," are airlines that usually have "home basing," that buy a commercial ticket to get to work, and have different work rules.

The amount of time that you're gone from home really depends on what you're flying, and for whom; with some operators, if you live in your "base," then you may have out-and back day trips; home at night. This isn't common. Otherwise, you may be gone a few days at a time, up to half the month at a time, depending on the flying and operation. A base is an assigned location that if often not your home. You might live in Salem, Oregon, but be based in Dallas, and it may be your responsibility to get to Dallas to begin a trip, then find your own way. home after the trip, or series of trips...every single time. When you do that, you have to go to each gate agent and ask for a ride, and hope there's a seat, and try to work your way back and forth across the country on a "jump seat" or spare seat, to get to work. When you do get to Atlanta, or Dallas, or where ever your base may be, you may need to have a "crash pad" or share of an apartment that you rent or pay to use, and a vehicle, if needed.

Pay hours are not the same as flight hours or work hours; all are different. The number of hours you're gone from home are different, too. You don't get paid for all of them, or fly all of them. Pay hours are affected by a number of things, such as "trip rigs," in which you might get paid a certain number of pay hours for each hour of actual flying or assigned flying, or in some cases a certain amount of pay credit hours for a trip, or for a day. Some pay for commuting time, some simply calculate it into duty time, that affects how long or how much you can work in a given day. The regulations regarding duty and flight and rest limitations and requirements are varied and complex, depending on what your'e doing.

One operator might have a 65 hour guarantee, but employees might be averaging 90 pay hours a month. Another might be getting only guarantee, or never "breaking guarantee," such that they can count only on the basic guarantee of pay per month (157 x 65, for example).

Hours worked per week or day or month will vary with your assignment. Bear in mind that hours worked is relative. If you do a 9-5 job, then. your hours worked are the hours you're at work on the job, but you might view hours worked as the time gone from home, in the context of your wife's veiw; In this case you might be away from home for several days, up to several weeks, depending on the employer. Also depending on how much flying you choose to take on. Some choose to work more, picking up extra trips, to increase income and increase experience. Others choose to do the minimum. With some operations, the company can put you to work when you're not otherwise assigned, starting with the most junior person on the seniority list. This is sometimes called "junior manning," or involuntarily assigning you to duties that you didn't plan on and that aren't on your schedule. Some people stay on reserve, with nothing assigned except to wait for a phone call. They serve as the "backup" pilot.

ACMI airlines, mostly freight carriers, but some passenger, typically work 15-18 day blocks of time, or up to that per month sometimes split into two blocks of a week or more. Flying for legacy carriers or majors or regionals, your flying will typically be several days gone from home, a little time off in between, and some of that time off spent getting to and from home. For some ACMI carriers, your flying schedule, destination, and the number of hours may be different every single day, and for others, it may be back and forth each day doing the same thing. With a regional airline, you may be flying several legs per day, with landings at several different airports, while at a legacy carrier you will often have just one, perhaps two legs.

Duffman

I was an engineer with a desk job, working 12-hour days before I became a pilot, and being an airline pilot is significantly better QoL. Aside from training, there is no stress when I'm off the clock, I get paid for the work I agreed to do, and if they want me to work more, they pay me for it. The job is just different enough each day with weather, maintenance, ATC, ground crew, passengers, etc to keep it challenging, but I also love flying, so that part never gets old to me. I also made more money as a regional captain than I ever would've made as an engineer.

Homelife is just different than a 9-5. You could be home for a week straight, then gone for a week straight. On the road, you have Part 117 protecting your crew rest, so except for commute days, it never gets that bad, for you. For your wife, it could be a toss-up, because she may prefer a small amount of help each night to absolutely nothing while you're gone and complete attention when you're home. But, after your first year at a major, you can afford a maid and landscapers.

There is an insane amount of opportunity right now, but there are also a lot of new bottlenecks between zero and legacy pilot. Mass retirements have attracted a lot of attention, so a lot of people are trying to cram through the current haphazard, undersized system to get their ratings and 1,500 hours. Just be wary when making your early career decisions. I'd recommend treating training like an ivy league graduate degree because that's what it costs and that's the effort you'll need to put into it, including being willing to move. If you live in a northern state and are only willing to take jobs in a 50-mile ring around your house, odds are it's going to take you significantly longer to get 1,500 hours.

rickair7777

I would definitely get a private pilot license (PPL) first before making any irrevocable commitments to career flight training. See how you like that.

There are a variety of aviation sectors, with vastly different schedules and work rules. To keep this on one page I'm going to talk about passenger airlines only.

Days off depends on airline, type aircraft, possibly your domicile, and definitely your relative seniority in your base, seat, and aircraft. It also depends on your personal priority, ie days off or money. If you're senior you can do a lot of trading between those priorities. If you're junior, not so much.

You also have a choice whether to take every opportunity as soon as your seniority allows (bigger airplanes, captain upgrade) or hang out and enjoy your relative seniority. You really want to be aggressive until you get to your career-destination airline job.

You'll start at a regional airline. Days off may be as low at 10-12/month at first, but should settle out around 14-15.

Once at a major flying domestic operations, 16-18 is probably a good ballpark but you'll have more flexibility than at the regionals and better workrules.

If you bid into international widebody flying, you can have 20+ days off each month.

Yes, per hour. How many hours you credit is complicated. Could be as low as 75/month as a new pilot.

But there are also bonuses, 401k, and "soft pay" which is pay for being on duty but not flying. Majors will be better in that regard... a rough ballpark would be to multiple major airline hourly rate by 1250.

For regionals maybe 1000 multiplier worst case, but your priority at a regional is to get experience and then GTFO... not make money or time off. If you get some, great but don't fixate on that.

Widely variable, some folks like a weekly rhythm, others do things like cram all of their flying into two weeks and then go home for 2-3 weeks. That's how some folks fly in the US but live in Europe, etc.

Typical regional week:
Four day trip:
Day 1: 6-12 hours duty, 2-3 legs
Day 2&3: 8-14 hours duty, 2-5 legs
Day 4: 6-12 hours duty, 2-3 legs
Layovers 10-16 hours

Typical major domestic week:
Three day trip:
Day 1: 6-8 hours duty, 1-2 legs
Day 2&3: 8-12 hours duty, 1-3 legs
Layovers 12-24 hours

Typical major international week:
Three day trip:
Day 1: 12-18 hours duty, 1 legs
Day 2: Layover 24-48 hours
Day 3: 12-18 hours duty, 1 legs

*** These are VERY rough, ballpark examples. Again lots of variability in this industry, and a lot of that is your choice.




4. What does your average work day look like at a regional/major. [/QUOTE]

Regionals: Typical day is either am or pm. Am starts very early, ends mid-late afternoon. Pm starts mid-day, ends close to midnight. Typically 2-5 legs, with 8-14 hours duty. More legs is bad because you don't get paid directly, or get paid less, for time between flights and pre-flight setup.

Major domestic: Typical day is either am or pm. Am starts very early, ends mid-late afternoon. Pm starts mid-day, ends close to midnight. Typically 1-2 legs, with 6-12 hours duty. Longer flights, so more productive per hours on duty.

Major International: Start and end at any time day or night. One leg per day, but it's long. Long layover, but you'll probably be in a vastly different time zone, so jet lag may impact enjoyment of the destination. Very efficient productivity because you get full flight pay even when resting on long-haul flights. It might take a regional pilot 3-4 days to block 14 hours but a long-haul pilot can do that in one 14 hour leg.

Themaxx69

I've been contemplating becoming an airline pilot for quite a few years now. I completed a semester long ground school class and a couple discovery flights, but that was 15 years ago. My issue now is the....risk I see in starting now at 44 and the fact I make ~120k before benefits with 15-16 days off a month and roughly 3-4% raise per year. I work at a inside blue and am not worried about job future here, but I absolutely do not love my job. And I work 13hr nights, which sucks. I can do this for another 15-20 years, but I don't really want too..... I'm smart, hard worker, can follow, lead, and train. Have some military experience. No degree. Single. Kids grown. Money is absolutely a factor, but I really know I'd be so much happier being challenged and really being able to use my skills.

I have read about a few others in similar situations. Any insights or recommendations?

rickair7777

You can do it. At 44, if you're going to pull the trigger you need to do it asap even if that means spending more and even taking on some debt. Be aware that while the retirement wave will still be firing on all cylinders by the time you get here, it will be on the back side of the big wave.

I would probably assume that you'll wind up at a LCC... to get on with a top-tier major will require more experience and possibly a degree. You should be able to do 2-ish years at a regional and then go to a LCC. For older people that's almost as good as top-tier because you'll never be a wide-body CA anyway, and the LCC pay is pretty decent these days. You might get called by one one of the big three, more likely AA or UA due to retirements. If so great.

Good news is that recent regional pay raises mean you'll be real close to six figures on day one (yes as an FO).

Possible that LCCs will actually be hiring 1500 hour CFI's in a few years.

Also matters what your retirement situation is. If you get to a major by age 50, you can plan on 16% 401k direct contribution from the company, that's the norm now. You don't have to contribute anything to get that, but you can and probably should. So look at retirement based on 15 years of 16% DC plus max employee contribution, plus catch up (age 50+). You'll get a little bit at the regionals too, but the real benefit there is for senior captains, not upwardly mobile FO's.

The degree will not be a huge deal, not like it used to be. Many of the LCC's may even prefer that because you are less likely to leave for one of the top tier.

Military background will help just a bit, they know you'll be responsible.

QRH Bingo

When you say “money is absolutely a factor” in which way do you mean that? Money to pay for training or the initial drop of income?

There is no way around either, but with pay rates on the rise industry wide, it’s a great time to start and be close to what you currently make. As for training cost, you are making plenty of money to pay as you go and do it quickly. But only you know your debt situation and where you can shave off expenses to better allocate your income. If you’re serious, it may be worthwhile to lower your standard of living for 2-3 years to get thru training and your first couple jobs.

Themaxx69

Thanks for more good info. I've read quite a few posts over the years about older people getting in late, and there seems to be a recurring theme. If you truly want it and can do it....do it! As long as you understand the big picture and the different possibilities.

Themaxx69

I mean earning potential. I know I'd be taking a big hit for a while, but I really want to like what I do. And I know from reading a little here and there over the last 10-15 years how...disturbingly low pay has been for a lot of people starting out. I'm sure most people would freak out if they knew how little newer first officers made for years. And it looks like it's gotten WAY better. I just think as long as I can make what I make now within 5 years, I'd be happy. If I can get there in 3 or 4, great. And I want to say, I'd try to fly as much as I could for many years.