519Flyer

Hi All,

I was just gauging to know and understand where I may fall and be competitive when it comes to applying for US airline jobs. I am a Canadian working on their ATP conversion after getting my green card through family based application.

I am currently flying for Canadian regional on a Q400, have 2400TT, 500 Multi turbine, and around 1700PIC (1172/DA20/DA40) time from instructing. My current job is my first airline job and offers experience into some of the busier airports like Boston, Washington, Newark, Chicago, and northern Canada airports where we can see a multitude of winter ops. Overall, a high contrast in exposure to weather and or traffic congestion.

My long term goals are to be able to apply and be a successful candidate for a Major Airline like United or Delta.

I have entertained the thought of Spirit Airlines/Endeavor/Skywest because of their Detroit bases (Close to home) and Envoy/Air Wisconsin having bases on ORD where my Wife's work is HQd. However, both my wife and I are open to expeirencing a new part of the country and are open to relocating if we have to. I.e we arent totally opposed to having to move somewhere other than listed above.

I am friends with two pilots that I went to school with who currently fly for Spirit, and have been extremely generous with their time to guide me on license conversion etc.. and then to even offer a letter of recommend when I apply. Only thing I am tentative about is the Jump to a plane like the airbus with (what I feel like) is a limited amount of multi turbine and 1 years worth of regional flying. I believe that I could apply myself to learn and work at the type rating and training if offered, but also dont want to feel behind the plane.

I think flying an RJ for a couple more years would be beneficial in helping me get a little bit more comfortable before making a jump to a LCC or heck, even a major. And may present the opportunity to try to upgrade when ready to get Multi Pic time in an airline ops.

I just want to know where I stand in the hiring pool for the regionals and LCCs. The hiring game and situation is much different in Canada with the majority of our regionals hiring around 1000TT (mostly CFIs) and a CPL....

I understand this may be a loaded question but any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time!

rickair7777

500 Multi Turbine is a tad low, but you have a type rating in a glass turbine aircraft (or at least type-equivalent training if no type was issued), so you're reasonably well positioned to complete a new-hire jet program in the US.

A few thoughts...

The bus is a different animal, easy to fly but harder to learn due to a rather different design philosophy.

At your experience level, you'd want to be sure that whatever training program you do has a good reputation. In the old days, some major training programs were very much designed for experienced airline pilots and did not do much spoon-feeding. Today, most have adapted to lower experience levels but you still want to ask around... red flags are things like outsourced instructors who are not line pilots or don't even work for the company, or stories about hard-ass examiners.

That goes double for an airbus program... make sure it's quality.

How old are you? If under 40 you should press hard for a legacy/top-tier airline. If over 40 it might make sense to settle for second-tier LCC since you could get hired and settle in fairly quickly.

You'll *most likely* need an unrestricted ATP (or at least meet all the experience requirements) for top-tier and for that you'll need 1000 hours 121 SIC. "121" means US regulations, so your non-US experience will not count. You can get an R-ATP without 121 time.

You can get hired at regionals (and I think some LCC?) with R-ATP eligibility. Regionals will provide the required CTP training and you get your R-ATP on the sim checkride. Look at the airline forums here and ask around, some LCC may also provide CTP? Not sure.

Best path to a top-tier would probably be a regional, easier training, R-ATP provided, and then faster upgrade. 121 TPIC is no longer required for most top-tier and there's a good chance you'd get hired without it, but it will get you called sooner once you have some (even completing CA IOE will move you up the stack).

But there's also a trend today where legacies are hiring more from LCC, to avoid depleting their own regionals. So that might get you called faster. The historically safe move would be to get 121 TPIC as soon as possible, if things slow down for some reason that would become important again.

519Flyer

Thank you for the reply. I am 25 years old so I still have some longevity in the airline world before retirement. Like i mentioned before, the US is such a different beast compared to what we have to offer here in Canada. I haven't even explored the cargo ops side of things...but dont know if thats cut out for me.

I take note to your points about the restricted ATP, and its a bit of a shame that I cant carry over time, but like you mentioned...US rules. Luckily, Ill have some time to do some more research while I get my conversions done to plan accordingly. There is a bit of a grace period before having to act on my visa and formally move to the US, which will buy me some time.

The part about the regional "flows" to mainline have always intrigued me. I heard someone once say "If you want to go to Delta, fly for United express or American Eagle" and vice versa. Kinda rings to your poiint about not wanting to harvest your own crop.

Do you have any recommends or advice on the regionals regarding who to look at and to avoid? I know inside talk and rumours can be helpful but also troublesome, but insight is still appreciated here aha.

Thank you again for your time!

Ravenwing

The US regional airlines currently have a shortage of captains, because pilots are required to have 1,000 hours US Part 121 time to upgrade, and many high time FOs and junior captains are being hired by bigger airlines. This has caused the hiring at the regionals to slow down because they have a lot of new FOs sitting around on reserve and not flying, so it makes sense not to pay more pilots to sit around while they don’t have enough captains.

I believe Republic, Endeavor, SkyWest, and even Mesa have been delaying new hire classes for awhile. Envoy has only been hiring cadets and pilots with 500+ hours of Part 121 time for the last 6-8 months, and no one knows when they will start taking off the street hires again. Horizon has only hired their cadets for the last year. Many CFIs have therefore chosen to go to the lower tier regionals like Air Wisconsin, Commutair, and GoJet, whose training programs have worse reputations, so even their class dates are months out now.

You are qualified right now for the LCCs, and they are doing a lot of pilot hiring right now. I would focus your research on those. JetBlue could probably put you in a E-190 if you are worried about the jump to a larger aircraft. Sun Country or Alaska would train you on a B-737 if you don’t want to learn an Airbus at Spirit or Frontier.

Once you reach 1,000 hours multi turbine you will start to be competitive for a job with United, Delta, and American if you choose. You didn’t mention whether you have a college degree, this is no longer required but makes you more competitive. FedEx and UPS still want turbine PIC time.

Xdashdriver

There is absolutely zero requirement for any 121 SIC time in order to get an unrestricted ATP. There is a requirement for the 1000 121 time in order to act as PIC, so you wouldn't be able to take advantage of any direct entry captain programs at the regionals, but that's a completely different regulation that has no bearing on holding an ATP.

Restricted ATPs are for those who need an ATP but don't have the total time, you have the total time (>1500 hours). The only folks eligible for R-ATPs are military, associate degree holders from an FAA approved program, or bachelor degree holders from an FAA approved program. You can also get one if you have less than 500 hours cross country or are between the ages of 21-23, but I highly doubt you would meet any of those criteria. I highly suspect you would already meet the hours requirements for an unrestricted ATP right now because again, you don't need any "US 121 time" to get an full unrestricted FAA ATP.

You would need to complete an ATP-CTP course, and do the written. I would find an employer that would pay for those. I'd be selective about which regional airline to go to as it relates to their training program and skip the regionals altogether if you can. There are some not-so-good ones out there. If there are any Airbus operators offering ATP-CTP to off-the-street hires, go there instead of a regional. Spirit comes to mind as a possibility but I'm not sure if they're offering ATP-CTP. You would have to check.

Most students coming to Frontier with 6 months to a year regional flying are doing just fine in the Airbus, so I wouldn't worry about that. It's a super easy plane to fly and I know our training program has a proven track record and it's well supported by Airbus. I know Spirit does fewer full flight sim sessions than we do but I've no idea what effect that has on their pass rate. I'd take the Airbus at Spirit if they're offering ATP-CTP long before a regional. I'd recommend Frontier but we don't have a base at DTW and we don't do the ATP-CTP with a few exceptions you do not qualify for.

LimaF

sent you a pm