dylanscott2017

I am hoping to gain some insight from you all.

I am a veteran with Flight Engineer time, I'm 31 and I am currently enrolled in a 141 University flight program working towards a BS in Aviation. It is an FAA approved program which qualifies for the R-ATP 1,000 hours. Im set to graduate late 2025 and will have roughly 300 hours and then will have to build time from there and based off what other CFI's have told me, it would take around a year and a half to add the additional 700 hours just to meet the minimum of the R-ATP which I'm sure minimums are what they are, just minimums and I would still need a significant amount of hours to add. So based on beer math I'd be looking at roughly 5 years before I touch the regionals.

I have been seeing programs like United Aviate Cadet program and the newly added Delta Propel Cadet program both offer zero hour to CFI certifications with guaranteed interviews and possible CJO's with 36-42 month flow agreements from the regionals to the main's. They are advertising 9-12 months to acquire CFI status and have job placement as an instructor flying 50-80 hours a month so again with the beer math, if I grind it out as much as possible and based on minimums I could be at the regionals in roughly 2 1/2-3 years.

In my opinion legacies like Delta and United would not be partnering with part 61 flight schools and having flow agreements with them if a degree was a main priority. So I ask you all, with the current climate of the industry and the need for pilots AND where seniority is king, is a degree really worth the time at this point? or is getting to the regionals ASAP the priority? If finances were not a factor which route would you take today as an aspiring airline pilot?

Thank You for your time!

rickair7777

It depends. You can definitely get hired without a degree at most of the top tier majors in this climate.

But that's not automatic or instantaneous... an experienced 121 regional CA with 8000 hours and no degree is probably almost a shoe-in right now.

Someone brand-new, with little relevant experience, no degree, and low time is probably not going to get called quickly by the best majors. You could most likely get on with a second-teir major fairly quickly though.

My swag would be that if you want a top job you need either a degree, or several years worth of TPIC at a regional. If you're good with second tier majors, then do whatever it takes to meet their application minimums as soon as possible.

Bahamasflyer

I think we are finally at a point where having a degree carries much much less weight than even a year ago. I got hired at my top choice legacy a month ago with just a 2 year degree, 2600 TT and no TPIC. Came from an ULCC, but I did have an internal LOR before the interview and then 2 more after that.

dylanscott2017

I appreciate the info!

QRH Bingo

Which can snap back the other way at anytime.

To the OP, it is all a pilot supply and demand issue. Currently, demand for pilots is high so preferred minimums drop, such as the need to have a degree. When pilot supply outweighs demand, preferred minimums increase. Eventually, the pendulum will swing the other way. When that will happen is hidden in that crystal ball but any significant recession could do it.

While the requirement to have a degree just to even apply may never come back, your application could very well sit at the bottom for years without one. I am not someone who believes everyone should have a college degree, but if you can afford it, it will certainly help your chances in getting an interview at a major when you’re ready for that.

Another path that gets tossed around is getting in at a regional as soon as you can and then completing an online degree program while flying for the regional. This one takes a good amount of dedication because it’s difficult to stay motivated while working full time.

tnkrdrvr

This is the smartest path right now in my opinion. However, if you are married, have kids, or highly value an active social life it will be tough. The current job market is fantastic for someone who did this starting in 2020,2021. Theoretically, it will be for years to come. However, when this job market crashes, ensure you have a plan. A college degree unrelated to aviation will expand your options.

In any case, a four year 141 college program makes no sense currently.

QRH Bingo

I agree…. Anyone got an idea how much debt one walks away with after completing a 141 program including a 4 year degree? I’m generally curious.

dylanscott2017

My current University program will cost anywhere between $135,000 to $150,000 depending how far you go with certifications, like adding on CFII and MEI.
Granted there are scholarships and grants the help reduce it, but at the end of the day it adds significant time. I have 2 1/2 years left and would graduate with roughly 300 hours and then spend another couple years building time. Compared to what y'all have been saying I could fast track flight training and get to the regional and finish out my degree there.

StuckOnReserve

In the current climate, a 4-year degree is definitely not required. The question is how long will the current climate last. Before COVID a degree was absolutely required to make it to a Legacy Airline. Will one be required again 3 years from now? Nobody knows.

I wouldn't spend any money on a hybrid College/141 program. Just to a stand-alone 141 program. It won't take that much longer to fly 200 more hours. especially if you teaching at a very active 141 school, or have a busy 135 gig. Get your certs, and work on a college degree part-time that way you are still making forward progress on both avenues.

rickair7777

Stand-alone 141 will *not* get you the R-ATP mins, I wouldn't really pick a school based on 141 vs. 61, although 61 actually has more flexibility.