Brickfire

I agree that they aren't qualified to give a medical diagnosis.

But there is a DSM diagnosis for "doesn't adapt well to military life" ... and that's adjustment disorder.

rickair7777

Nor is it intended to be, because that might obligate the DoD to provide ongoing care (via AD retention, med retirement, or VA). At the recruit level they prefer to assume that you arrived broken, and they just want to send you back home in the same condition. They don't want to pay 70+ years of med retirement or VA for someone who only lasted a few weeks of boot camp. Otherwise anyone who could fake it real good for a few weeks could retire for life at age 18 1/2.

If they actually break you, obvious serious physical injury, they will take care of you.

That is an example of an adjustment disorder, not a specific disorder. Treatment often involves removing the stressor, simply give it time in many cases, or change your life circumstances if possible.

Actual diagnosis of Adjustment Disorder in mil medicine became a common thing after congress put some limits on discharges... a work-around basically:

https://nlgmltf.org/military-law/201...der-discharge/

rickair7777

For the OP: After some thought, I'd suggest that you pay AMAS for consulting as to how you should fill out the FAA medical application (form 8500). I don't know and nobody here can determine for certain whether you need to check box #18(s). I suspect you do, but don't know for sure. If there was no medical diagnosis, then perhaps your discharge was administrative, not medical in nature. Get professional advice, there are ramifications for getting wrong either way.

SteamedHams

Thanks everybody for the help, I think this is going to go pretty smoothly so long as I can front the money for the evaluations that are necessary.

There's a lot I want to reply to here, so I figured I'd do it all in one giant reply.

Yes, I absolutely understand that this is not going to be a walk in the park, at the very least for the training portion. I'm prepared to deal with the stress of it now. Back then I was not. It was a really rough period of time. Fortunately, since going to University and getting my life straightened out, my circumstances have gotten much better for me.

Yes, I do plan on explaining myself and I also think an interview coach would be a great idea. My ideal final destination would be Delta. Is that a possibility? I'm trying my best to ask around and see what other people's experiences are, but unfortunately mental health is so stigmatized in this industry, nobody wants to talk about it, so it seems pretty hard to get a straight answer out of anybody.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to contact the HR departments at some bigger airlines and ask them what the company's official stance is when they encounter this sort of thing.

That's heartening to hear. I also have to hope & believe that the bigger airlines are also understanding...

I definitely did learn an important life lesson: when things don't feel right in your head, make sure you tell someone. Rather than let it get worse and continue to fly, you'd better ground yourself or seek help before things get worse.

Unfortunately I did report myself as having one suicidal ideation when I went to the medical ward. So with the HIMS AME I am going to have to get a psych test, and maybe a cognitive test, and maybe be in a Special Issuance sort of situation. I never had any medication, I never received therapy, I never had any sort of treatment, and this has never happened before or after this one moment. I was diagnosed with Adjustment Disorder & that's it. The HIMS AMEs I have spoken with seem to all agree that I will be able to get the first class sorted out. The real question is just whether or not the airlines will like me. Thanks for the help rickair7777!

Yep, it was just an Uncharacterized Discharge. I wasn't in the military long enough for them to make a clear distinction as to whether or not I acted honorably.

Do you mean the next cycle of hiring ups and downs? I see every airline currently hiring on https://www.airlinepilotcareers.com/major-airlines, so at present moment, that seems like a good sign...

I was never REJECTED, as in, I was able to get INTO the military. But I'll speak with the HIMS AME and AMAS to get it just right.

Thanks for the tips, I'll follow that advice!

Loser or not , I just want to know if the big airlines will consider hiring me.

I'm definitely going to talk to AMAS, thank you for the advice!

rickair7777

Aviation training is not as stressful as boot camp (unless you make it so). Also being away from home for the first time is a big stressor in and of itself, to say nothing of mil + family situation.


DAL is probably the most selective, but even 2nd tier majors can reject people for no apparent reason. It's OK to have a preffered destination, but don't pursue that to the exclusion of other similar opportunities... ANY major is going to be a good living and a good life.

Garden-variety anxiety/depression is far less stigmatized now, it just has to be resolved or on a successful treatment program for the FAA. Airlines won't really even know the details when they interview you... you could explain that the discharge was mental health related and that it's resolved with the FAA.

You probably won't get much response. Legally if you have an FAA 1C medical, they mostly cannot reject you for medical issues, including mental health. That was not true in the past, and old-timers might tell you the complete opposite. But times have changed.

They might be able to reject you based on the mil discharge, but if you explain that as medical-related (now resolved) it might actually protect you. I'd ask an interview consultant.

None of them are understanding. Regionals and many other aviation sectors are desperate for pilots. Second tier pax airlines are slightly desperate, top-tier are not desperate but they are hiring a great number so there's opportunity.... you don't need 20/10 vision and a top gun or space shuttle patch anymore.

I expect you'll get it sorted out since it was a single episode with an obvious trigger which you won't experience again. Sounds like you are, but definitely get help in navigating the FAA process, you can really hose yourself if you submit the wrong info to the FAA. But given what you described, I'm very confident it will work out.

Since the reason for discharge was medical (mental health) it's possible that the airlines won't be able to ask about those details at an interview. If they do, keep it short, mention what you learned and then shut up. I'd ask your interview prep person about how to deal with that. Kind of tricky since they can ask about military service and history, but not about medical stuff, and your situation is both.

But I think you'll be fine... you might get rejected by an airline or two, but I'm sure you'll get other offers. Even people with no background issues at all get rejected by airlines all the time, and many have no idea why. Again don't get your heart set on one airline, but rather shoot for a group (and have a fallback plan).



Uncharacterized is fine, they won't consider that non-honorable in any way. Just the issue of discussing why you got released.


Yeah, get professional advice on that... the language on FAA forms (and regulations) means EXACTLY whatever the FAA wants it to mean. Just because you read it a certain way is irrelevant.

hindsight2020

You just described my 100% maligning POS uncle straight out of Benning circa Vietnam. Never worked a day in his life since that training discharge, drank his @ss to death, and sued for inheritance everybody in the family in the meantime. Probably 40 years of 100% VA payments, tax free plus de facto medicare for all for life. Good gig if you can find it.

SteamedHams

This is really fascinating information. Where do you remember learning about this legal aspect? I want to confirm this information myself.

If you had to recommend an airline interview consultant, who would you recommend?

animalhaochi

we are on same boat bro. But mine narrative reason is fraudulent entry. I'm current in part 141 school will be starting my flight training soon on spring. Would this discharge prevent us get a major airline job in the future?>

e6bpilot

OP, it simply won't be a factor.
It was a blip on the radar. I was both enlisted and officer just for reference.
Nobody will care at the airline level. Put some distance and success between you and the event and you will be just fine. Most of the people on these forums have zero clue or frame of reference.

Sliceback

He went to the medical ward because he had suicidal ideation. The HIMS person he spoke with said they'd think he might be required to get a pysch test, cognitive testing, and perhaps a Special Issuance waiver.

The HIMS professional he contacted said he might need a pysch test, cognitive testing, and a Special Issuance. That's a sign that the FAA might REALLY care.

You say "you will be just fine." Have you even had a beer with him? He should follow the advice of the professionals that have knowledge in this area. They won't have a beer with him but they'll do whatever evaluates the system requires.