HockeyFan

I have some questions about the feasibility of becoming a pilot with respect to my particular circumstances. I am 31 and have been working for a family member for the last 10 years in a media business, I do not have a college degree. I have been very interested in aviation since I was a kid, always had the bug to fly. I never pulled the plug on training due to the cost of training and for a long time, the state of the economy making the career outlook murky. But now with the current outlook for the career being good, I am wondering if now would be a good time to reconsider whether to jump in. My main concern is the cost, I would have to finance the whole training. I have heard other pilots online say that with the sign-on bonuses and current starting pay at the regionals you are able to pay back the loan very quickly, is that true? I don't know how the bonus payout works, is it monthly or quarterly? This would be the major deciding factor for me if the loan could be paid back within 3-5 years of getting a job at a regional.

Another question would be what type of flight school to attend. I know the pros and cons of a school like ATP as well as part 61 schools. It would be great if I could work part-time while training so I wouldn't have to include any living expenses in the loans, but I would want to complete the training as quickly as possible.

And lastly, how detrimental would not having a college degree be to any future upgrades to a major carrier? I have heard that some pilots were able to get their degree while working at a regional but I also have heard that it is very hard to do it that way.

This has been a nagging issue for me for a while now (I actually posted on here several years ago asking about a flight program to show you how long I have gone back and forth on this), whether to pursue this career and I am now at the point where I would really like to decide once and for all whether it is a good idea or not.

So, any advice would be very much appreciated, thanks for reading.

rickair7777

Bonus structure varies per airline, you'd have to ask in the forums for specific regionals you're interested in.

The bottom line is that opportunities and pay are so good right now that you won't be hurting while you make payments even as a regional FO, and once you get on second year pay at a major you can pay off loans very quickly.

Retirements, seniority movement, and income opportunity is moving very fast right now... for many years I've been an advocate of pay-as-you-go but at this moment in history you can get a very good ROI on a loan if that gets you hired a few months faster. That won't last forever, if you're going to do it, do it soon and aggressively.

There are many discussion in the Flight Schools/Training forum.

For upgrade to Captain, the degree doesn't matter at all... as long as you got hired at a major in the first place upgrades are by pure seniority (ie date of hire), assuming you meet the minimum flight experience to be a 121 PIC.

This is another topic where my advice has been very different for many years, but we live in interesting times... for getting hired at a major, the degree is nowhere near as important as it used to be, and some second-tier majors might even prefer no degree if the think it makes you less likely to leave for top tier majors. If you're shooting for top tier majors (you probably should under age 40), then you may need a little more time at the regional and may need to upgrade to regional CA. So it might cost you 1-3 years would be my SWAG, but not a showstopper.

Time and money permitting, it would be a good idea to chip away at a degree while at the regionals... that way if the industry slows down for whatever reason you'll be better positioned. But in this climate prioritize quality flight experience over that.



You have to make the call... there's never been a better time but that doesn't mean there won't be challenges along the way. If you can comfortably get a PPL and instrument rating without struggling much, then you should be OK with advanced training for airlines. In the past maybe 10% could not make that transition but the training programs have been adapted to the pilot shortage reality so they're willing to invest more to get most folks through.

TOGALOCK

Something else to consider, if it matters to you. Today’s hiring reality is the hiring reality for people being hired today. It is not, and will not be, predictive of *your* reality. The massive hiring and upgrades today are partially induced by consumer demand, but is also a result of backfilling huge amounts of early retirements during covid, and also hiring for the large amount of retirements coming up. Major airline retirements will peak in about 3-5 years and then begin to slow from there. Anyone just starting flight training today will have missed a massive chunk of the hiring wave. This includes the near guarantee of a regional hiring bonus. They may very well still be there by the time you qualify for a regional spot, but don’t make a career decision based on that. A single economic hiccup and the hiring problem could be solved for a few years (hence, plenty of pilot supply to staff the regionals and no more bonuses).

Hiring should continue at a nice clip until the end of this decade, so you should have no problem getting on the wave. Just focus your expectations on where that will put you in your career, not where people are quickly ending up today (i.e don’t expect that 6 month upgrade to captain of a 767 at Delta). The career of someone who caught the front of the wave will look completely different than someone who caught the back of the wave. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a long term senior first officer at one of the big three. You’ll still make excellent money (in some cases, more than a junior captain) and have magnificent quality of life.

I don’t say any of this to discourage you, but simply to help you look at the reasons for you making the move to aviation. Are you finally making the jump because you truly love aviation and being able to fly for a living is more important to you than what aircraft you will fly and if you will be a captain or FO? Or, are you hoping to be a 777 captain in 5-7 years? There’s no wrong answer to those kinds of questions, but just make sure you’re honest with yourself. Good luck!

HockeyFan

Thank you for your detailed response, I really appreciate it! I think I would try to work on a degree while at a regional so as to make sure I put myself in the best position possible for the future since I would definitely be aiming for a top-tier major.

HockeyFan

Thanks very much for your thoughts, it was very helpful! I have considered what expectations I have for this career and I am confident in saying I would be happy to be a senior FO at a good major carrier, quality of life is important to me so if I can get senior enough to make my own schedule I would be happy. Senior FO pay would certainly be good enough for me. Not saying I would never want to upgrade but I can say I wouldn't be unhappy if that is where I stayed.

HockeyFan

Does anyone have thoughts on working part time while training? How much extra time would it take compared to training full time? Like I mentioned before I would hate to take out living expenses with a loan, but if training less than full time is not ideal I would consider it.
Any feedback from someone who has done it would be appreciated!

TransWorld

I think the question is where on the scale you would be. Working full time and only getting a few flight hours on the weekend would take forever. Are you thinking of working 20 hours per week? Take those extra days and Saturdays, Get say 20 - 25 hours per week of actual flight time to log. Kind of pushing it, but you can do it if you are dedicated. 1500/20=75 weeks. 1500/25=60 weeks. Rough idea.

Remember some days you will not be able to fly, for whatever reason. So, a year and a half would be a SWAG.

JohnBurke

Don't finance the training based on the misguided guess that you might have a magic bonus to pay it all back. If you accept the debt, own it, plan on having it for some time, and plan on it impacting your cost of living for some time to come. Any "bonuses" that exist now may not exist in a year or two; a number of those in play right now have expiration dates; these incentives are not sustainable.

Counting on a giant "bonus" that enables you to rapidly dispose of training costs is a bit akin to counting on a get-rich-quick scheme.

QRH Bingo

This is what caught my eye. Were you referencing your current career in media looking murky or did I correctly interpret this to mean the aviation industry? If you were afraid to jump in because of a murky outlook, you may need to reevaluate this and its risk you perceive. Aviation goes up and it goes down. Actually, getting started in a downturn isn't necessarily a bad choice because it takes so much time to get the ratings and experience needed to get hired somewhere, it's possible that things begin trending up by the time you get there. (This assumes you take on as little debt as possible just in case the jobs do not materialize) The opposite can also be true, like now. Things are on the upswing and you begin training only for it to turn south right as you are ready to submit those applications and suddenly the music stops. You're left with no aviation jobs to apply for and potentially a mountain of debt knocking on your door for repayment.

HockeyFan

Thanks for your input, that gives me a good idea of the completion time. Yeah, I was thinking something along the lines of working 20 hours a week and spending the rest of my time on training, I would put as much extra time as I could into it.