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ADAPT? Dream buster?

Old 09-01-2023, 09:06 AM
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Default ADAPT? Dream buster?

So I took adapt exam for Southwest 225 program and got the f off and die letter. Does this mean that "other pilots beware" when it comes to should I enroll in a flight school on my own?
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Old 09-01-2023, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mmonroe194
So I took adapt exam for Southwest 225 program and got the f off and die letter. Does this mean that "other pilots beware" when it comes to should I enroll in a flight school on my own?
It's hard to know what you're asking here, due to your incomplete sentence and jumpy language, but your comment strongly suggests why you weren't selected.

Does it mean anything? Other than you weren't selected?

Does it mean that other pilots should "beware" because you weren't selected?

You're free to enter flight training anywhere you like.
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Old 09-01-2023, 11:28 AM
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Thank you so much for your interest and time applying to and completing the ADAPT assessment for the Destination 225° program. After careful consideration of your qualifications and assessment results we will, unfortunately, not be moving forward with your application. We know that this news may be disappointing, and we want you to know we did not make this decision lightly. The Destination 225° Team wishes you success in your career and aviation journey.


The Destination 225° Team

The message in its entirety. So isn't this indicating I'm no good? Or should I not take this to seriously? I'm serious but also know it's risky
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Old 09-01-2023, 12:35 PM
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What you have there is what is commonly referred to as a TBNT, or "thanks, but no thanks" letter. This is simply a diplomatic way of saying that you were not selected. The letter says nothing about your qualifications. It simply says that you were not selected for the program at this time.

Nowhere in the letter does it state "**** off and die." That's your words, not theirs, and if you carry that attitude, you do have a short career in aviation.

If you make assumptions that the letter you received (which is nothing more than a polite way of saying you weren't selected) suggests you lack skills, ability, capability, qualification, or any other aptitude for flying, then this is something you said, not the Southwest 225 team.

Foreign airlines, for many years, have used cadet programs, known as "ab initio" programs which take applicants from zero experience, to pilots for that airline. This has not been the case in the US, where airline-sponsored ab initio programs have been non-existent. Comair, a Delta feeder, did offer such a program, largely self-sponsored, but it went bust years ago. Mesa, too. Many considered a program like Comair to be buying one's job. Other programs have sprung up where pilots paid to sit in the right seat, quite literally buying their job (Gulfstream, nee Silver). Others required training bonds to be paid if the applicant left before the 1-3 years of the bond. Several airlines presently have such an arrangement.

Since the Covid pandemic, the industry has experienced a surge of business; an increased passenger load which is artificial; more passengers traveling than before is the result of people being cooped up for several years. It's been called "revenge travel," or in other words, people making up for lost time. It's artificial: it won't last. Attached to that surge of business for airlines has been increased demand on aircraft and crews, and consequently, a very significant hiring surge, which has resulted in a lowering of the requirements for pilot applicants. An outgrowth of this has been the decision by several airlines to finally adopt the global pilot academy ab initio training models. This is a relatively new advent in the US, and one that may or may not last, but it's never been the path to a career until just now. The idea of a zero-experience applicant getting someone else, other than the military, to pay for training is not a part of the US pilot training arena. It's something that happens outside the US.

In the US, if you want someone to pay for your flight training, join the military. A few federal agencies have also sponsored flight training, but those positions are very few, and are specialized, and usually require extended time in service as an agent for that agency, before one can even apply. The US Border Patrol is an example that has done this, in times past.

Ab initio programs like Southwest's aren't the be-all or end-all of flight training; they have limited positions and take limited number of applicants. Why weren't you selected? No way to know. Didn't do well on the test? Didn't interview well? Too many applicants that day/week/month? The slots filled up, like musical chairs, and none were left? Who know? It doesn't matter. You received a letter advising that you weren't selected, with nothing further said. This is normal, if you apply to a company and aren't selected. Many companies never notify you. Some do. You received a standard thanks-but-no-thanks.

Because this says nothing about your aptitude or ability, what it does not say is that you're unqualified. In other words, this letter gives no reason why you shouldn't seek flight training anywhere you choose. Whether you do is up to you. You have the same opportunity for success as any one else who learns to fly and decides to make a career.

The reason that I said your language strongly suggests why you weren't selected is your comment regarding "**** off and die." This is a poor attitude and a poor way to express what you received: a polite, diplomatic letter declining your application. Your attitude is what will come across in interviews and in your dealings with others. Likewise, all your posts on this site so far have used language that has a lot of errors, from punctuation to grammar. Airlines have a low tolerance for that, in person or in writing. One might argue that this is just a discussion web board, so who cares? The counter argument to that is that as a pilot applicant, you seek perfection in all things; this means that you pay attention to detail, and it should show in your posts. This includes complete sentences. If English is a second language, it may require a bit more attention to detail, but what you say and how you say it matters. Leave "**** off and die" behind.
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Old 09-01-2023, 01:20 PM
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I apologize. It's part of why I need a positive change in my life. The initial post was frustration for sure and LE slang for the letters we all got when we have to divulge 30 pages of our life and every secret in it to get the job. (FOAD letter) Again. I apologize. I do appreciate responses since I do see some can go un answered. So I decided to just apply for the first class medical exam. I will do this to know for sure if I even qualify to apply for a flight school. It brings up another question. Having had an alcohol problem in past is already precluded me correct? Any my punctuation and such is a lot related to the fact that most of my posts are done from my phone and hard to correct.
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Old 09-01-2023, 02:13 PM
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An alcohol problem in one's past does not preclude holding a first class medical. The nature of the problem, and its recency, and its current status are considerations. Item 18.0 on the application asks if you have ever been diagnosed with, or presently have alcohol dependence or abuse. You are able to provide detail thereafter. The FAA is chiefly interested in how alcohol impacts your health, judgement, etc, moving forward, as a pilot. There's no such thing as an ex-alcoholic, so present trends and condition and use are important. It's one thing if you were arrested for a DUI yesterday, vs having not touched a drop in twelve years, with regular AA attendance, etc. In general, the FAA looks at the prior two years, and also on a case-by-case basis.

14 CFR 67.107(b) defines substance abuse, with regard to the FAA medical application:

§ 67.107 Mental.

Mental standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:

(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:

(1) Use of a substance in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous, if there has been at any other time an instance of the use of a substance also in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous;

(2) A verified positive drug test result, an alcohol test result of 0.04 or greater alcohol concentration, or a refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test required by the U.S. Department of Transportation or an agency of the U.S. Department of Transportation; or

(3) Misuse of a substance that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the substance involved, finds—

(i) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

(ii) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.
Verification that you can hold a first class medical is often recommended as the first step in pursuing flight training. That's not normally my recommendation, but certainly before you invest a lot of money or entertain a career change, you should ensure the ability to hold the medical; without that, one can't work for an airline. One can work as a commercial pilot doing many other things, with a second class, but there's not much difference in the exams.

In short, you're not precluded. Pilots working as pilots have alcohol problems, and still come back. It can certainly hinder one's career and depending on the recency and the degree of the problem, employers can look on it unfavorably, but alcohol problems can be overcome. If you're an alcoholic now, then you shouldn't be flying. If you've had alcohol problems in the past, but these are not part of your world now, then first of all, congratulations, you've over come a lot, and second of all, they don't preclude you from becoming a pilot.

The first thing I suggest that people do, if they're looking at flying for a living, is take a discovery flight. Most schools offer them. Get an hour of instruction or an introduction to flying, see what you think. If you're making this decision with a spouse or significant other, it doesn't hurt to have them go with you. If you do take your wife, make sure it's a morning flight on a calm day, and do a little sight seeing. Pictures of the home, local stuff, etc. Positive experience. But don't neglect the purpose of the flight, which is to see if it's for you. Chances are, if you feel the drive to do it, then it is for you. The hardest part of learning to fly is paying for it. Find a way past that, and it's not a bad gig.
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Old 09-02-2023, 02:35 PM
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You seem to be a bit scattered while trying to do your research and maybe getting ahead of yourself, unbeknownst to you. Trying to sort out the proper path (that which is best suited to each individual) can be one of the most difficult stages of the entire process because you know so little about it all and understand even less. I went to the Destination 225 website and poked around and see that the minimums do require a First-Class medical certificate. Have you obtained that yet? While there was no specific question about the medical for those initial questions, there were questions about willingness to relocate and if you meet the requirements. If you answered "no" to either of those questions it very well could have kicked you back the TBNT response. As for the aptitude exam, there are numerous YouTube videos explaining how they work, what they are looking for, and how to help increase your odds. If you are able to re-apply, be sure to check out those videos to prep. I understand the desire to begin as quickly as possible and find a path that works for you, but this is not the time to rush into anything unprepared.

Start by getting your First-Class Medical, if you have not already.

While asking questions on here is a good start, do some YouTube watching on beginning flight training. Plenty of poster children who enjoy seeing themselves in front of the camera. After some time, you should be able to sort out good information from that which is less helpful.
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