Problems during training
 

Hello, I am seeking some advise here is the situation, first my back round, 57 yo male, 30 yrs military 6000 helo, 500 C12 hours. Unrestricted ATP, A320 type on my own.

Went to work for a Major Airline. Ground school no issues. During touch screen sims, 4 total, during number 3, I received an UNSAT, Instructor was teaching the wrong material, and according to the Deputy Director of Training, the UNSAT would be removed.

During SIMS, my stick buddy and I received two UNSATS in a row, during sim 3. The second UNSAT in the sim, my stick buddy and the instructor got into an extremely unprofessional argument. The likes I have never seen. After that I got a new stick buddy, no further issues in sims.

I started IOE, during the second IOE trip, I received a PC during the final day. The previous day, which was a 3 leg day, legs 2, and 3 my LCA received check rides. When I got the PC I had 34.5 hours in the aircraft, with 5 landings. I made some mistakes noted in the debrief, and he mentioned my attitude being great and very receptive to training. Two days after the PC before my 3rd IOE flight I received a call saying training was paused, and a Training review meeting was coming. During the meeting, the first UNSAT was brought up again, I explained that it was supposed to be removed, and the other two were from the issues between my stick buddy and the instructor. Based on this, the company has decided to "part ways" with me.

Union fought hard, but being probationary not a lot they could do. They are filing a formal grievance on my behalf. Breach of contract issues. Management did not budge. I consulted several friends, and they recommended to resign instead of being terminated. So I am not resigning.

I have emails, talking about the argument, and stick buddy change, and the original IOE paperwork.

I think that is all from the company being overstrength on pilots rite now, with a possible recession coming. I have also heard they are kicking a lot of people out of training right now.

My question is how hard is it going to be, to get another interview at another Major, or Regional when the hiring starts back again?

The simple answer is that is really depends on the climate at the time you apply for the next job. Not long ago, a temporary state of affairs had regional airlines paying large signing bonuses; a short interval later the pilot hiring market has turned on its ear again and now it's an employers market.

Volatile politics are in play, with a tenuous economy. A lot could happen. In the present climate, hiring has returned to a more modest rate, similar to what it was prior to the pandemic, but hiring and the industry at large are cyclical, and what your chances are really depends on the company and the circumstances at the time. Operators can afford to be picky presently.

While there are mitigating circumstances, there's no mechanism to list these or present them in an application, and a limited potential to explain them in an interview. For the most part, an attempt to cite reasons for a training failure will be viewed as making excuses. One is generally expected to own the failure, and to show what one has learned, or growth from the experience. The bottom line is that an employer wants to now you won't experience that problem when they're investing their training dollars in you, vs. a different applicant...they're not interested in injustices that lead to your resignation or separation, but that you take responsibility for it, and can convincingly convey that you won't go there again. The big question is whether you'll be given an opportunity to address that.

The employer with whom you had the training failure may also be taken into consideration. There are some operators who are more questionable than others, with higher attrition rates, and for whom less weight might be given when considering a training failure. In other words, what might be considered a grave black mark with one employer, might not be taken as seriously, if the event occurred with a different employer. Not all are equal, or given equal weight .

Get copies of all your records, and watch your pilot record database (PRD) file for comments from that employer. Dispute something you don't agree with.

I recommend spending some time with a resume or employment coach, and discussing this event, and the best way to present it in upcoming applications. The impact of your story isn't always relegated to the facts, but the way in which they are told, and in knowing what to share and what to emphasize, and what not to share or volunteer.

Yup, can't make excuses, that will go over like a lead zeppelin.

Own it, tell them what you learned and how you'll avoid the same issues in the future. Even if you have to take the blame for something that wasn't your fault. But usually some of it is your fault.

34.5 hours of IOE and only 5 landings? Long haul flying?

If the union ends up prevailing on your behalf would your resignation be a problem for getting your job back?

Resignation seems like the right move. However, there are applications that ask the question, "Have you ever resigned in lieu of termination." You will have to answer that question.

You need to get a flying job. Any flying job to help put distance between you and this event.

Replies
 

Hello all, to answer some of the replies,
1. I completely agree that usually the individual has some ownership. Not in this case. This was strictly a cost saying by management. I am not the only one this happened too during training. I have heard of at least 8 others to date.
2. The Union has said this is a blatant contractual violation. And they are looking into the others and possibly making this into a Class Action violation. Now the company is in contract negotiations right now. And I was told by the Union the mostly likely outcome is the Company will stall until is comes time to sign a new pilot contract and the company will say they will sign when all of the grievousness are wiped clean.
3. Out of the total of 13 legs, 3 were less than two hours, and the rest were 4 hours
4. What the Union said my resignation has no effect on getting my job back. Now do I really want to work for a company like this?
5. I still have the ability to fly the C12/BE200 for the military so I will just concentrate on that until the next RTAG convention.

Be sure you say that in your next interview. Let us know how that works out for you.

You own both successes, unsats and failures, during training and checking.

..Have you ever violated any rules or regulation ?..``No Sir``..Really..??..``Correct Sir, I always follow them, always``..

Long time ago, this question was posted to one of my CFI-colleques (ex Air Force) at an interview, with one of the big ones.
3 decades later, he is still teaching..I think most of us can see why.

Fly safe,
B757

So, honestly I wouldn’t expect another interview at a major or maybe even a regional in this hiring environment until you successfully complete another jet training program and a year on the line. If you paid for your own type rating initially, the failures in sims on the same type you’re already rated for are eyebrow raising to say the least. The way you’ve explained things, right or wrong, sends the message that you’re argumentative and can’t accept responsibility for your own failures. That’s going to have to change for your own sake.

If Mesa was hiring they were always good for salvaging a career, now that they’re being absorbed by Republic. Who knows. They may be your best bet when hiring picks up again and people are afraid of the training contract. Failures of your kind at the regional level set people back a couple years traditionally in their quest go get to a major. Failure from a major? Might take you five years to recover, or you might end up in an entirely different part of the aviation industry. A lot is going to depend on how humble you get about things and how well you move forward.

let’s assume this is true. You still have to get past HR somewhere else. And the goal of a hiring process is not to find the best people or even good people, it’s to screen out the bad people. The ones who will bring trouble and drama.

in normal hiring environments, the slightest suggestion that a candidate will be trouble means any reasonable person will toss the application and move on. Any “it was the company’s fault” story will raise that red flag. Irrelevant if it’s true.

You have unknowingly detoured from aviation to theater and your next role is playing a pilot who made a mistake, owned it and learned from it. Take whatever you can from the script you have and play that role for HR. Because that’s what will get you a job.