blastoff

I usually hold my tongue on posts like this, and I realize I’ll probably get flamed over this. I also realize that the overwhelming majority of us who went after this career “The right way” (whatever that is) are exceptionally lucky to have had the opportunity to do so, and that each pilot’s set of circumstances are different. I have flown with several hard working degree-less pilots at XJT, and they are fantastic. They are also honest about their situation, make it clear they made their bed and now have to sleep in it, and will simply work hard to eventually have the resume their co-workers have, without asking for special favors or complaining that the standard is too high. I don’t know CaptainCarl personally, and I’m responding in the hope that at least one high school future pilot changes direction from Carl’s course…not to bust Carl’s chops.

BUT...

You want to work around the ATP age requirement while working around the degree requirement. Maybe no one sat down with you to tell you how it is, ask you who the hell you think you are, or pointed you in the right direction (career and attitude wise); so I really give you the benefit of the doubt…but I am going to be a little rough on you here. Oh boy, where to begin:

It was mine too (I now fly heavies). Every, and I mean every, airline pilot I talked to since I was 6 years old told me “Do well in school and go to college.” I doubt you were told any different…but you obviously chose to go against the advice of those with whom you wish to be peers. Failure to follow such simple advice has put you in a not-so-simple situation.

Especially considering how full the pilot hiring pool is going to get with furloughs and lay-offs, absolutely.

Not good, unless you know someone, usually someone you met in college (there it is again). If it really is your “dream job,” shouldn’t you have already known this answer when you were making big decisions and considering the ramifications of taking a job at TSA?

An age experience ratio would probably work against you…a 20 something year old with tons of 121 experience looks like someone who makes ill-advised decisions, not an unusually experienced “Doogie Houser.” The guy in the interview room next to you has less time because he spent 4 years busy following the advice of pilots who came before him (and parents, teachers, guidance counselors, etc..)…this helps him, not you.

In 2 years since high school you call getting your ratings and a job at TSA “working your butt off?” You also did so against everyone’s advice. Paris Hilton could walk down to ATP today and have your job in 6 months.

At least at 23, you’ll be 5 years older than when you were the risk taker who dove head-first into this industry without doing his homework.

Since you never went to college, you will never know whether you are wasting your time. Half your degree is classes other than your major (Gen Ed), that half is what makes you a “College Educated individual,” and you will use that every time you open your mouth for the rest of your life.

Besides, (obviously) you will use it to get your dream job.

757 said it best:

Good call, though, on telling UOP to shove it. As was said earlier, more and more traditional “Brick and Mortar” universities are creating online programs. If you get furloughed by TSA, you should still give heavy consideration to going to college, in residence.


Again, try not to take it personal. I’m trying to illustrate something since it seems like a lot of young guys on this forum seem to have no mentors whatsoever. Your story isn’t what’s outrageous…it’s that you’ve actually tried to defend it and make excuses, rather than learn from your mistakes and press on the way someone ready for the left seat would.

Pilotpip

Quit waterskiing and go to college. I wouldn't trade my four years in school for anything. Yeah, you're probably going to get furloughed from there. Why waste time competing with lots of 25 year-olds with the same experience but a little piece of paper in their pocket? Simple, it shows commitment and maturity. 95% of us have a degree. Hours don't mean squat after a certain point.

I'm sure you're mature enough to operate a plane, and if you survived the hell that is ground school at TSA I'd get on an aircraft you're up in front of, but others may not percieve that maturity. A 4 year degree will help show this maturity (percieved or actual). Remember, you only have a one-page resume that some HR person will spend all of 30 seconds glossing over. Make yourself stand out and better yet, give yourself something to fall back on that doesn't involve airplanes. You may need that some day. Right now, I'm glad I have it because I'm gonna need it come September 9.

Talk to some of your captains about it. You're 20 years old and you haven't lived yet. Rather than slaving for Hulas, go to school, get some experience and enjoy the social aspect because I KNOW you're not getting that at TSA.

CaptainCarl

Blastoff: Thank you. I value your input and I am not offended by it. I am ambitious as hell and sometimes a little arrogant. I was brought into the aviation world by a pilot who has always swam against the stream. I thank him for everything he has done for me and will never regret doing things the way I have. I realize now that the degree, as everyone, including my father (the pilot), is a requirement.

As my math teacher always used to tell me: "Carl, you are your own worst enemy."

blastoff

We're all our own worst enemies...

Don't worry, you still have years before people you went to high school with even graduate from college. Plenty of time. The twist is that now you'll have to do it while maintaining a 121 job, so it won't be easy. You could find a Heavy cargo job that doesn't require the degree, or maybe a Legacy carrier will relax the requirement for a short time; but you'll be betting your life on that company for the rest of your career...only you can make that call.

All of this is without even bringing up the whole "What if you lose your medical" issue...that's for another day. Even after all my preaching, you still get to decide what's right for you. Good luck.

"When you come to a fork in the road...take it" - Yogi Berra

zondaracer

College was the best 5 years of my life. I met most of my closest life friends in college, learned about myself, and overall had just one heck of a good time. No need to rush into life, enjoy it while you can.

I was a literature major in college, and no, i will probably never use the literature degree, but I wouldn't trade my college experiences for anything. I also had college buddies who were CFI's. We also had an aviation club at my university, and I was offered a job at a little bizjet outfit to wash learjets. 4/5 years in college doen't mean that you will put aviation on hold for 4 years.

Worst comes to worst, you will always have something to fall back on.

bull

No offense, but I think it would be moronic to not get your degree is today's competitive environment. I don't think you would have a snowball's chance in hell without one. Things are just too competitive in this industry. And to say you wouldn't ever use it? I am sure you are aware of the high health standards of this profession. What if you were in an accident and lost an eye, or something of the sort that prevented you from qualifying for the cockpit? What then? Any "dream" job will most likely require a degree of some sort. You are only 20. Take the advice of all those before you. You may think it is a waste now, but you will look back and realize it was one of the best decisions you ever made. Trust me.

CaptainCarl

Thanks guys for the advice. I believe all of you when you say I need the degree and college is a really good time.

As for losing my medical: I won't stop flying just because I lose my medical. Plenty of countries that don't care. It may not be my "dream job" but sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches. Flying is a skill no one can take away from you.

Slice

Carl, that is truly one of the dumbest and most uninformed statements I've ever read on here. UPS recently had a guy go out in his 30's with cancer. He fought it and came back but many are not so lucky. If it had this happen to him before being hired at UPS, he'd have had a tough time making it back to a major job. It could and can be taken away from you at anytime, your job or your life! You may not think so in your early 20's but...
Stop by your nearest big city trauma center and see how everyday people get FUBAR'd just living everyday life. No one is immune. Now get your ass a 4 year degree.

CaptainCarl

Point taken.

I'm on it home slice, I'm on it.

joepilot

There was a person in my new hire class who was 21, and had a letter from the FAA that he could exchange for the ATP on his 23rd birthday. So, he didn't have the liscence, and couldn't act as PIC on a 121 aircraft, but he had demonstrated his knowledge and competence to the FAA. I think that there is a good chance he got hired on the strength of that letter. I have no idea if the FAA still does this.

Joe