Getting fired
12-16-2008, 12:22 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Getting fired
I'm 22 and on my way to become a professional pilot, I have gotten most ratings done, and also an associates degree. I have also been recently fired from a job at a major electronics retail which shall remain nameless. I got fired for "almost theft" I was going to steal something, but then I felt overwhelmed with guilt and panic, and I ditched the product. I got caught once they found the product and checked tapes. They didn't charge me with theft, since it didn't occur, but I did get "terminated" from that job. I was also explained that when applying for jobs, they must always check references from jobs you got fired from.
This is something I have never done before, and feel extremely guilty about. I'm also afraid I have tainted my professional future for ever. I worked at this store for 4 years, since I'd turned 18, so it's also a major part of my resume that I soiled.
My question is, how much will that affect me during the interview and application process from small regional airlines, all the way to the bigger and better jobs? Is this something I can wait out or repair somehow?
Please, any information or experienced opinion is greatly appreciated...
thanks in advance
This is something I have never done before, and feel extremely guilty about. I'm also afraid I have tainted my professional future for ever. I worked at this store for 4 years, since I'd turned 18, so it's also a major part of my resume that I soiled.
My question is, how much will that affect me during the interview and application process from small regional airlines, all the way to the bigger and better jobs? Is this something I can wait out or repair somehow?
Please, any information or experienced opinion is greatly appreciated...
thanks in advance
12-16-2008, 04:06 PM
#3
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,206
As you have surmised, this is not a good situation you are in. However, there are a few positives...
1) You did not get arrested or convicted, so there will be no government hurdles to employment as an airline pilot.
2) You are young.
3) You have an otherwise clean record.
4) You obviously have the right attitude about what you did: Remorse. This will be critical when the time comes to address this at an interview, you MUST accept full responsibility. There is plenty of info about exactly how to deal with something like this at an interview..do your homework well.
The good news is that in the long haul this will probably not affect you much. When you are in your thirties applying for a major airline job, this will be far enough in the past that you will probably not have to put it on a job application. If you do have to tell them about it, they will probably consider it a youthful mistake and not hold it against you.
As far as the short term, it could be a problem with any employer, aviation or otherwise.
The first thing you have to do is try find out what your old employer will say about you if called for a reference. Many companies' lawyers will not allow them to say much except to verify dates of employment, and possibly re-employment eligibility. This might also be affected by state law. You should be able to call HR and your old boss and get an answer. If not, you might be able to have someone (girlfriend, etc) call HR and pretend to be a prospective employer to find out what they will say. Be aware that the application will usually ask for your boss...if you think he might have axe to grind, just put the name of the HR manager instead.
You have three scenarios:
A) They will say nothing but verify dates. This is the best you can hope for, but a propsective employer might wonder why you do not have a letter of recomendation from your old boss especially since you were there so long...
In this case you have to decide whether to be honest. Note that most applications will also ask if you have ever been fired and why. In your case honesty may well result in your not getting hired. But the problem with lying is that if they find out later, you WILL be fired...and getting fired from an airline will earn you a black mark in a special system called PRIA (Pilot Records Improvement Act). Odds are that if you have a PRIA report which says you got fired from an airline for lying about getting fired for stealing, you will never get another airline job.
If you are honest, there's a good chance you will get turned away by one or more regional airlines. However..once you do get hired you will no longer have it hanging over your head. I can't tell you what to do, but I would rather deal with it up front, and not have a skeleton in my closet waiting to jump out some day. Also the fact that you were candid with an interviewer will weigh in your favor.
B) They will verify dates and report not eligible for re-employment. This will require some explanation on your part, and the interviewer will be listening carefully for any hint of dishonesty.
Again you have to decide whether to fess up, or make up another story as to why you are not eligible. See above.
C) They will say you were fired for suspected or attempted theft. I doubt they will do this:
- Fear of civil lawsuit
- State Law
- The fact that the theft actually never happened. If they didn't have enough evidence to call the cops, they probably can't justify slandering your name.
If this does happen, at least you don't have to worry about trying to make up a story. Summarize briefly, express remorse, explain what you learned, then shut up. Hopefully they will move on to other topics.
1) You did not get arrested or convicted, so there will be no government hurdles to employment as an airline pilot.
2) You are young.
3) You have an otherwise clean record.
4) You obviously have the right attitude about what you did: Remorse. This will be critical when the time comes to address this at an interview, you MUST accept full responsibility. There is plenty of info about exactly how to deal with something like this at an interview..do your homework well.
The good news is that in the long haul this will probably not affect you much. When you are in your thirties applying for a major airline job, this will be far enough in the past that you will probably not have to put it on a job application. If you do have to tell them about it, they will probably consider it a youthful mistake and not hold it against you.
As far as the short term, it could be a problem with any employer, aviation or otherwise.
The first thing you have to do is try find out what your old employer will say about you if called for a reference. Many companies' lawyers will not allow them to say much except to verify dates of employment, and possibly re-employment eligibility. This might also be affected by state law. You should be able to call HR and your old boss and get an answer. If not, you might be able to have someone (girlfriend, etc) call HR and pretend to be a prospective employer to find out what they will say. Be aware that the application will usually ask for your boss...if you think he might have axe to grind, just put the name of the HR manager instead.
You have three scenarios:
A) They will say nothing but verify dates. This is the best you can hope for, but a propsective employer might wonder why you do not have a letter of recomendation from your old boss especially since you were there so long...
In this case you have to decide whether to be honest. Note that most applications will also ask if you have ever been fired and why. In your case honesty may well result in your not getting hired. But the problem with lying is that if they find out later, you WILL be fired...and getting fired from an airline will earn you a black mark in a special system called PRIA (Pilot Records Improvement Act). Odds are that if you have a PRIA report which says you got fired from an airline for lying about getting fired for stealing, you will never get another airline job.
If you are honest, there's a good chance you will get turned away by one or more regional airlines. However..once you do get hired you will no longer have it hanging over your head. I can't tell you what to do, but I would rather deal with it up front, and not have a skeleton in my closet waiting to jump out some day. Also the fact that you were candid with an interviewer will weigh in your favor.
B) They will verify dates and report not eligible for re-employment. This will require some explanation on your part, and the interviewer will be listening carefully for any hint of dishonesty.
Again you have to decide whether to fess up, or make up another story as to why you are not eligible. See above.
C) They will say you were fired for suspected or attempted theft. I doubt they will do this:
- Fear of civil lawsuit
- State Law
- The fact that the theft actually never happened. If they didn't have enough evidence to call the cops, they probably can't justify slandering your name.
If this does happen, at least you don't have to worry about trying to make up a story. Summarize briefly, express remorse, explain what you learned, then shut up. Hopefully they will move on to other topics.
12-16-2008, 04:12 PM
#4
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
[Edit: Hey, Rick is here- I was wondering where you were for this one!]
Well, stealing is a serious lapse of character so I hope it was not representative of your character. I can't speak for the airlines but I doubt any of them will consider an applicant with no prior work history. They will surely pass on someone with a termination as the reason for leaving the last job. Every employer from the sanitation industry up is looking for one to five years prior employment history to be sure they are getting someone who doesn't steal and will show up on time. They will call your former employer so count your prior history as useless. You are in for a hard time getting ANY job at this point, I hope you know.
I mentored a kid one time who had sucker-punched her mother and received 3 weeks of community service from the judge. She deserved it, but she was only 22 and I knew she was a good kid so I called around and found out things she could do to work off her debt without getting involved with the truly nasty kids in town serving those sentences. She ended up washing fire trucks and ambulances for several weeks which I felt it was a good deal for her. She had a lapse of judgment but she wasn't ready to start a career in crime.
You are going to have to do some resume repair at this point to recover from the termination at Best Buys. There are decent and honorable ways to do it. Try and get on as a volunteer for a local charity to establish a work history. Tell them what you are doing and why, no need to be shady about it they know people come there as last resort. All you need is a couple of honest months of this kind of work to get a positive recommendation from someone in authority there.
As far as jobs for pay are concerned, I would look into jobs where trust is not an issue like roof repair, lawn work, delivery, etc. It will be a tough year but you will put the termination behind you building a new record. Many good people were terminated before, they just learn from it and move on. Good luck. Don't steal any more.
Well, stealing is a serious lapse of character so I hope it was not representative of your character. I can't speak for the airlines but I doubt any of them will consider an applicant with no prior work history. They will surely pass on someone with a termination as the reason for leaving the last job. Every employer from the sanitation industry up is looking for one to five years prior employment history to be sure they are getting someone who doesn't steal and will show up on time. They will call your former employer so count your prior history as useless. You are in for a hard time getting ANY job at this point, I hope you know.
I mentored a kid one time who had sucker-punched her mother and received 3 weeks of community service from the judge. She deserved it, but she was only 22 and I knew she was a good kid so I called around and found out things she could do to work off her debt without getting involved with the truly nasty kids in town serving those sentences. She ended up washing fire trucks and ambulances for several weeks which I felt it was a good deal for her. She had a lapse of judgment but she wasn't ready to start a career in crime.
You are going to have to do some resume repair at this point to recover from the termination at Best Buys. There are decent and honorable ways to do it. Try and get on as a volunteer for a local charity to establish a work history. Tell them what you are doing and why, no need to be shady about it they know people come there as last resort. All you need is a couple of honest months of this kind of work to get a positive recommendation from someone in authority there.
As far as jobs for pay are concerned, I would look into jobs where trust is not an issue like roof repair, lawn work, delivery, etc. It will be a tough year but you will put the termination behind you building a new record. Many good people were terminated before, they just learn from it and move on. Good luck. Don't steal any more.
12-16-2008, 04:13 PM
#5
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,206
Originally Posted by MD10PLT
You're 22 and haven't learned not to steal yet. I wouldn't let you anywhere near an airplane.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.
This is probably the typical reaction from an airline pilot...it is worth noting. For you kids out there who might want a shot at this career, keep your nose clean. Just the cost of doing business...
12-16-2008, 06:56 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: C402
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by MD10PLT
You're 22 and haven't learned not to steal yet. I wouldn't let you anywhere near an airplane.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.
Good luck
12-16-2008, 07:30 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: USAF
Posts: 1,398
Originally Posted by RPaulson
I'm 22 and on my way to become a professional pilot, I have gotten most ratings done, and also an associates degree. I have also been recently fired from a job at a major electronics retail which shall remain nameless. I got fired for "almost theft" I was going to steal something, but then I felt overwhelmed with guilt and panic, and I ditched the product. I got caught once they found the product and checked tapes. They didn't charge me with theft, since it didn't occur, but I did get "terminated" from that job.
Also, I wouldn't go broadcasting this stuff to everyone... these forums can be a small world... chances are if you give it some time, the people who were there when you were fired will be gone, promoted, whatever... and when (if) they call your employer they will only mention that you did work and were terminated... from my understanding employer-employee information (such as the circumstances) are usually kept fairly private. Remember, several pilots have gotten jobs with even DUIs... so you are not out of the fight. Just keep your nose clean and don't announce that stuff. If they specifically ask... sure... tell them... but don't volunteer it. Only you can disqualify you.
12-16-2008, 09:04 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 215
since im your age i wont judge your for your actions. however they are right. keep your nose as clean as u can. i seriously doubt this would affect your aviation career as long as you have no record. if this is your only work history. all you tainted was getting another minimum wage job if u choose to use them as a reference on another application which would be pointless. ive been fired from a movie theatre for reasons i wont say but there where no charges pressed. i would keep your hand out of the cookie jar. however that is for you to decide nobody else can do it for you.
12-25-2008, 10:17 PM
#9
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 1
I hate to chime in here, since most have already said the obvious. A pilot is noted for their integrity, problem solving skills, and plan of execution, which you showed a lack of on all fronts. However, everyone makes mistakes but at 22 I hope this is the last mistake that you make that ever involves criminal behavior beyond driving too fast on the freeway when you're late for work.
That being said...
The airlines want a ten year work history. I know ten years seems like a long time, but with the way the current industry is...that is probably about the time you would be ready for a commuter. From the information you gave, you do not have a Bachelor's degree or a CFI (since you are not working as a CFI already). By the time you receive your Bachelor's degree and work as a CFI for quite a few years to build time and experience, this job should hopefully be beyond your 10 year history.
If you want to eventually work for a major airline, most want a Bachelor's degree or over 10,000 hours. It's only two more years of school and is an important investment into your future. I would advise against getting a degree in Aviation, pick something else as a fall-back career in case things don't work out in Aviation. (Take this as advise from someone with an Aviation degree that is about to get furloughed for the second time from a major airline and discovered in the last furlough that my degree meant nothing as far as getting a job in the interim.) This will also take up two years of your "work history."
I know everyone says to be truthful about you past mistakes and if you can explain it well and said you learned from it, they will accept it in an interview. My advise is that if a major mistake (like yours) was made in a non-aviation industry -- don't tell them! Especially if there is no proof - criminal record, etc. If it is in aviation related industry that is another problem due to the PRIA (Pilot Record Improvement Act.) However, this does not apply to your case.
I agree with the previous posters. Start working on a new work history and forget about this past job. Don't even list it. I like the post that someone suggested to get a job at a non-profit to get a good reference. If you need a job right away, I would also agree to the previous poster of getting you girlfriend, dad, friend (who sounds older) to call you previous employer to see what they say when asked about your job history. I believe the law states that the previous employer cannot say why you were fired, but they can say you were fired and that they would not rehire you. You need to know what they will say if asked. I had a colleague that had been fired for embezzlement from my company and the employer called all the other businesses on the airlfield and told them what he done and not to hire him. This is totally illegal, but you need to know what they are going to say.
Since you have an Associates degree you can always say you were in school for the past four years...hey some people take longer to complete a two year degree. I AM NOT TELLING YOU HOW TO LIE! And I am not giving you any kind of legal advise. I am only giving you options if you find you are up against a wall. Times are tough right now and people need jobs.
When it comes to the airlines, do not lie!! Your best advise is to work out a new 10 year history, go to school and major in something with a backup. If you do not have your CFI yet, find a school you like, get your rating with them and they will usually hire you when you receive it, but make sure they are hiring before you start with them!! I haven't been a CFI in awhile so things may have changed...I hope others chime in if they have.
Good luck, keep your nose clean, and fly straight!!
That being said...
The airlines want a ten year work history. I know ten years seems like a long time, but with the way the current industry is...that is probably about the time you would be ready for a commuter. From the information you gave, you do not have a Bachelor's degree or a CFI (since you are not working as a CFI already). By the time you receive your Bachelor's degree and work as a CFI for quite a few years to build time and experience, this job should hopefully be beyond your 10 year history.
If you want to eventually work for a major airline, most want a Bachelor's degree or over 10,000 hours. It's only two more years of school and is an important investment into your future. I would advise against getting a degree in Aviation, pick something else as a fall-back career in case things don't work out in Aviation. (Take this as advise from someone with an Aviation degree that is about to get furloughed for the second time from a major airline and discovered in the last furlough that my degree meant nothing as far as getting a job in the interim.) This will also take up two years of your "work history."
I know everyone says to be truthful about you past mistakes and if you can explain it well and said you learned from it, they will accept it in an interview. My advise is that if a major mistake (like yours) was made in a non-aviation industry -- don't tell them! Especially if there is no proof - criminal record, etc. If it is in aviation related industry that is another problem due to the PRIA (Pilot Record Improvement Act.) However, this does not apply to your case.
I agree with the previous posters. Start working on a new work history and forget about this past job. Don't even list it. I like the post that someone suggested to get a job at a non-profit to get a good reference. If you need a job right away, I would also agree to the previous poster of getting you girlfriend, dad, friend (who sounds older) to call you previous employer to see what they say when asked about your job history. I believe the law states that the previous employer cannot say why you were fired, but they can say you were fired and that they would not rehire you. You need to know what they will say if asked. I had a colleague that had been fired for embezzlement from my company and the employer called all the other businesses on the airlfield and told them what he done and not to hire him. This is totally illegal, but you need to know what they are going to say.
Since you have an Associates degree you can always say you were in school for the past four years...hey some people take longer to complete a two year degree. I AM NOT TELLING YOU HOW TO LIE! And I am not giving you any kind of legal advise. I am only giving you options if you find you are up against a wall. Times are tough right now and people need jobs.
When it comes to the airlines, do not lie!! Your best advise is to work out a new 10 year history, go to school and major in something with a backup. If you do not have your CFI yet, find a school you like, get your rating with them and they will usually hire you when you receive it, but make sure they are hiring before you start with them!! I haven't been a CFI in awhile so things may have changed...I hope others chime in if they have.
Good luck, keep your nose clean, and fly straight!!
12-26-2008, 11:38 AM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 75
I second Rime Runners' opinion. Don't list it.
And, the way the economy is going, your "major electronics chain" may very well be history in a couple of months. Or. the store you worked at may be closed. So go the records and anyone else that may remember.
Tough thing, but hopefully you learned. Some of us never do,,,,,
Learguy
And, the way the economy is going, your "major electronics chain" may very well be history in a couple of months. Or. the store you worked at may be closed. So go the records and anyone else that may remember.
Tough thing, but hopefully you learned. Some of us never do,,,,,
Learguy
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