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Busted Checkride/Possible New Career Advice

Old 11-29-2011, 05:15 AM
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Default Busted Checkride/Possible New Career Advice

Hi to everyone at APC,
Right now I’m in need of some unbiased career advice. In 2003, I tried unsuccessfully to get my instrument rating while in college. Unfortunately I failed the instrument checkride four times. Yes, unfortunately you read that right…. FOUR times. After the forth time, I pulled the plug on my training, I was beginning to run out of money and decided that the four year degree was the priority. Very Embarrassing- not even many of my friends know. That being said, this is not a “Can I still fly for (insert 121 operator here) with four busts?” post. With the PRIA laws and a Post-Colgan airline industry, I’ve accepted that I will never be able to fly 121, 135 and probably most corporate flight departments. Originally I wanted to fly for the military, but I’m medically unable to even join (probably actually a good thing…if I couldn’t fly a checkride in a 172….I sure wouldn’t be able to pass one in a T-6/T-38). And yes, I’m one of those people that has loved airplanes since they were six years old. Currently, I’m 28.

A couple of years later I graduated with a four year degree in Aviation Maintenance Technology (I thought about changing my majors then, but I was halfway finished with my degree, so I decided to stay). I went to work at a small shop as an A&P for three years, at the time thinking I could somehow scrape together the finances to finish my ratings. I was/am a pretty good mechanic, but I never truly enjoyed the job (other than getting to fly every once in a while to pick up parts, fly to broke aircraft, etc. - I continued to fly with my Private to pick up parts/keep current, etc.) I still do maintenance work on the side and on my own airplane.

After that I got a job as a Quality Engineer and eventually worked my way up to Quality Supervisor at a medium sized repair station doing civil and military work. I tolerated he job because of the decent pay, to be around airplanes and be involved with military aviation. I released aircraft for flight, supervised employees, worked under Part 135, 145 and 21, wrote reports and managed the Non-Destructive Testing Program. While interesting, it was like a diabetic working in a candy store… I could look at the candy, move the candy around and manage the production and quality of the candy….but never eat it.

I am a “weekend warrior.” I have my own airplane and fly once a week or so, I have about 500 hours TT. Flying is fun, but I feel inferior to pilots that are flying for the airlines, or have obtained their instrument rating.

I left the repair station and now teach at an university A&P school. I tried this (and took a pay cut) because I truly thought I’d love it. I don’t. Some days it’s fun, but most of the time I find it frustrating because I see students that can and do achieve what they want do (many of them become pilots after getting their A&P) and unfortunately I can’t, but I remain positive and helpful to the students so they can get where they are wanting to go. So, during my years in the aviation industry I’ve never really had a job I’ve truly enjoyed- it’s been just one big consolidation prize.

I’ve thought about jumping ship to another industry, but I want to make the right choice the first time. I’m a bit reluctant to get out because I have so much time invested in aviation now (on the Mx side). I’ve also thought about ag flying (I have farming experience and no instrument rating needed.)
Does anyone have any suggestions? I know only I can decide what to do, but maybe someone has some insight that I possibly don’t (The old adage “Can’t see the forest though the trees” comes to mind.) Should I walk away from aviation? Stick it out? If I should get out, what would you suggest I get into

I’ve watched a video by General Welsh at the USAFA, which I highly suggest everyone take the 50 minutes to watch it (It’s on YouTube and very inspiring). He mentions that everyone won’t achieve their dreams, and if you don’t you’ll make new ones. I’m just looking for help to possibly find a new dream/direction (other than airline flying).

Sorry about the super-long post. Thanks for your time in advance.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:23 AM
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If you get the rest of your ratings and don't have any more busts you would most likely still be able to fly some part 135 jobs. They don't care much about checkride busts. Some of them would also really like the fact that you're a mechanic.
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rcfd13 View Post
If you get the rest of your ratings and don't have any more busts you would most likely still be able to fly some part 135 jobs. They don't care much about checkride busts. Some of them would also really like the fact that you're a mechanic.
Don't rule out Part 121 operators, many are concerned with only 135/121 busts. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:13 PM
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4 busts is unfortunately 4 busts for all eternity as far as your training record is concerned, but I agree with the others that you should continue training if you think it is feasible. Don't kid yourself though. If you are truly not meant to fly, by all means quit before someone gets hurt. But having a hard time with one rating may not be conclusive evidence that you cannot do it, although you are not off to a hot start. I say give it another try. The airlines do not want high bust pilots because they are expensive to train, it is not a moral thing. If you were to keep the bust count at 4 and get all the other certs with less trouble, I tend to think a hiring staff would recognize you triumphed over a learning block. From what I read here, it will probably not be an airline though because of the cost of training overhead. The bust limit for airlines is normally 3, with zero being common. Maybe 2 during a rapid growth period.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
4 busts is unfortunately 4 busts for all eternity as far as your training record is concerned, but I agree with the others that you should continue training if you think it is feasible. Don't kid yourself though. If you are truly not meant to fly, by all means quit before someone gets hurt. But having a hard time with one rating may not be conclusive evidence that you cannot do it, although you are not off to a hot start. I say give it another try. The airlines do not want high bust pilots because they are expensive to train, it is not a moral thing. If you were to keep the bust count at 4 and get all the other certs with less trouble, I tend to think a hiring staff would recognize you triumphed over a learning block. From what I read here, it will probably not be an airline though because of the cost of training overhead. The bust limit for airlines is normally 3, with zero being common. Maybe 2 during a rapid growth period.
135 and 91 are certainly possible, but that assumes that there was some reason (other than lack of aptitude) for the four busts. Since it was the same rating it might have been the instructor, the examiner, or maybe distractions (or even lack of maturity) on your part.

Before you consider going down that road again you should do a THOROUGH and HONEST self-evaluation of your aptitude and what went wrong in 2003. Then go finish your IR at your own pace with an instructor you like and carefully select an examiner. See how you do and decide from there.

The downside here is that you really cannot afford another bust, so you would have that added pressure hanging over your head. Probably best to keep your day job and train on the side until you have a few checkrides under your belt.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:29 PM
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You can start flying skydivers and work your way up to Twotters. It's fun flying, and you're always around great people. Plus you won't have to worry about those d*** instruments!!
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:40 PM
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I say keep flying. Dont limit yourself to anything. There is a job out there for everyone.time will heal.
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:34 AM
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I agree with Rick. Four bust on the same ride is most probably a training/IP problem.

Back in the day, when I was teaching at Riddle, I was one of the IP's that got the "problem kids" (not my name). Ironically, many for their instrument rating and they all got through. So, you are not alone. Sometimes their problem was their IP, some their attitude, and some was that they just needed to be taught a different way. Given the time and the right environment, I could teach anyone that is able to get a PVT their instrument rating. I assure you it is not something that you can not do.

"Checkrideitus" is another big hurtle that is usually overlooked and rarely taught. Yes, students need to be taught to take check rides.

Good luck with your decision.
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:52 AM
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The first thing I thought here was that you probably stayed with the wrong instructor. The first thing I have always tried to teach my students is that their training is about THEM not ME. If they can't learn from me, they need to find a different instructor. No hard feelings.

That being said, you can get hired 91 corporate, 135 or 121, but you can't bust again. That will probably mean that you will need to take additional time to train for the remainder of your ratings to ensure you know the material inside, outside, up, down, backward and forward. Make sure you do a thorough self evaluation to determine the cause of your past failures, what you learned from them, and what you can tangibly do to overcome them going forward.

Good Luck.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:43 PM
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Since you already own an airplane and you bum around the sky on the weekends, why not turn it into a learning experience? Use that time to train towards your instrument rating. As it's been pointed out, perhaps your failures (I don't tend to think of them as failures) are attributed to Flight Instructors pushing you through the system before you are ready. Unfortunately this is a common trait I found when working at the local pilot factories. A good Flight Instructor should not sign you off for your test until you are ready. As AtlCSIP mentioned, your training is about your learning, not about my paycheck. More often than not, I think that poor learning is attributed to the the Student, Flight Instructor relationship (this only applies to students who actually have an interest in learning how to fly). I have only ever had one student who had no reason being behind the controls of an airplane. In the end I fired him as my student. A good flight instructor will tell you if you don't have what it takes. And most of what it takes is a genuine interest in aviation.
Now whether or not you can obtain an airline job with said fail rate might become an issue, but aviation is much much bigger than just the airlines.
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