Career Change to Pilot... too Old?
 

Many moons ago, I attended ERAU with the intention of becoming a professional pilot for a major. One financial catastrophe and seeing the writing on the wall for the majors later, I dropped out in my 2nd semester as a sophomore. I was an FAA checkride away from getting my PPL at 45 hours. I. Loved. Flying. To this day, it is the one thing I can look back at and say, "Now THAT is something I am REALLY good at."

Fast forward almost 20 years. I'm now 40 and employed as a corporate web site developer/designer. It's a fair enough living (~$70K), but I'm at a juncture now. I'm anything but passionate about this job (especially at this particular company...). For my 40th birthday, my incredible wife hooked us up with 2 hours in a 172. The instructor has become a terrific friend of ours (retired USAF, etc.). It was like riding a bicycle, and rekindled my passion for flying, coincidentally at the same time I realized how much I'm completely unfulfilled in my career at this point. I really want to fly, and I want to do it daily-ish. At ~$70K, I can't afford to do it on my own, so I may as well try to get paid for it, and fly some pretty cool stuff, to boot.

I know I'm far too old to even think about flying for the majors, or even a regional. I'd be completely happy flying King Airs for small company, charter or wealthy family. I'd be tickled pink to fly for NetJets or something along those lines.

Knowing the above, is it remotely possible for me to make a career change? I know it would probably take quite some time to get close to what I am taking home now, but I am willing to sacrifice that for a fulfilling career doing something I truly love. But if the chances of that happening are close to nil, then I'd like to know that before I make serious moves toward making my dream a reality.

Stay at your job. Finish your PPL. Get your IFR, commercial, instructor and revisit this question when you are done.

I would think, for you-buy a plane-take that wonderful wife flying on the weekend someplace nice and continue to love flying. You could instruct on the side.

You could actually make it to a regional in time to upgrade and still have maybe 15 years as a CA (assuming the current regional business model survives intact, which is unlikely). You could probably also get hired at a major in time to be an FO for ten years or so.

But the real question is do you want to make the financial and lifestyle sacrifices? You will never be able to to recoup your losses, since only widebody captains have lucrative income at most passenger airlines and you won't have time to get there.

Can you can maintain a decent income by consulting/freelance in your current field?

I would not consider it at all unless you have your retirement FULLY funded, house paid off, kid's college funded, and enough cash to supplement your lifestyle during the entry-level CFI and regional years...your wife will not think it's cool to live in a van down by the river (or the flight school parking lot).

There are trade-off's between 121, 135, and 91 employment...none is really much better than the other on average.

1st, NetJets has furloughs that could easily last into double digit years. Even if they didn't have furloughed pilots and they were hiring, their minimums are much higher than regional airlines. You could easily make it to the regionals. Not to demean or insult regional lifers, but think of the first few years at a regional as a low rung on the ladder. Seriously, some have bridge programs that hire worthless flight school grads into the right seat.

THIS! Absolutely stay at your current job and get your ratings on the side. If you decide it's for you after getting your CFI, teach on the weekends or something and after enough time or networking, you might be able to get a nice corporate gig.

If you want to have a crack at the airlines, make sure your family is prepared to have you gone about 80% of the month (if you commute to base on reserve) and you'll need to be prepared to make $20,000/yr or less your first year with only a small raise yearly after that until you upgrade to captain.

I'm in a similar boat as of last week I made $66k so this first yr had I stayed I'd be at $70K. I was not very happy in my work and didn't find it rewarding besides the money. Now I had all my ratings when I started minues the CFI; I bought a plane and enjoyed taking trips with it in addition to using it for instrument currency. The ride has been fun and now I head off to school in less than a week for a small regional. One big negative though is the pay cut; talking $50k gone a year with really no idea when I'll see a $70k salary again. 10 years if I'm lucky? I love to fly; so I'm just going to get this bug out of my system while I can and if need be bail out and get a more stable job.

I have no aspirations to work for a major. I'd never get into the left seat, if I could even get hired in the first place... I can't imagine a major investing someone who, by the time I had enough hours to get there, would only have around 10 years of employment left. Of course... the way things are these days, some pilots are luck to work 10 years at a major...

The regionals seem like they might be okay, but I see enough horror stories on here to really dissuade me from that track. I understand the irregular schedule and more of the 'hands-on' work that charter and biz flying involves, and that doesn't bother me too much. Also, while a lot of folks focus on cracking six figures, I realize at this point I'd just like to get back to my current income level as quickly as possible. That's one reason I pointed out the King Air, as it seems that most of those pilots are pulling down about what I am making now.

(Fear not... definitely not a sandbagger... I do want to make as much as possible, would love to break six figures, and know that pilots earn every penny of that, especially when all the Oh SH!T lights start flashing.)

I just don't want to be staring at the same damn four walls for the next 20 years or so. And I want those next 20+ years to be full of doing something I'm passionate about. I've seen some advice that says to just stick it out, and buy a plane to enjoy on the weekends. That's fine, but that basically limits me to something no more complicated than a late 70's C-182, because I sure as hell can't afford much more than that, and I'd like to fly some more complex, bigger equipment. Which is why the corporate/charter gig appeals to me.

I'm actually starting the process of career counseling right now to see what other alternatives there are. At the same time, I'm trying to figure out how to finance getting everything through MEII. That's going to be crazy expensive...

The fact that you now feel such passion is reason enough to NOT make a career out of aviation. Do it for recreation only. Any flying career, esp. in which you must rely on it as a survival means, will suck the "passion" right out of you. You will soon hate it.

Ah... one thing I forgot to mention. I suppose that in the midst of all of this, I am going to have to get a piece of paper to hang on my wall, too, right?

Really? Do you hate your job? Do all of you on here with professional flying careers hate your job? If so... why keep doing it?

Hate?
 

Hate? I think it is more that the job hates you. At least it seems that way at times. :) It definitely looks better from the outside than from within.

Skyhigh

I was going to write something profound, but every time I started, I found I was convincing myself to quit flying and go back to computers where I had a decent life and salary.

So dont look to me for guidance.

To answer steve's question about "if I hate it, then why do I still do it?"
Although this is an idealists question, I will still respond: what else am I supposed to do? I have no other skills or specialties. That was all wasted on aviation.

Make sure you don't back yourself into this same corner. Keep your skills up in your current job maybe do it part time when you get into charter flying and you will have the best of both worlds. Flying and Money!

Sounds like the general consensus. Means it will take quite a while longer to get there, but that's life, I suppose.

I'm definitely taking notice of the jaded and scorned people around here, though. It's completely understandable... being a pilot today is nothing like it was 30+ years ago, and that's a shame. I suppose a discussion of how it got to this point and if it will ever be good (or even decent) again is better posited elsewhere (actually, I'm sure it has been ad nauseum here). I would like to avoid loathing my career choice, if at all possible :), but at the same time, I would like to do something I find rewarding, challenging, and gets me out of this damned jail cell of a cubicle.

I can relate to how you feel about being in an office; I'm in one right now as I type this. I will miss the friends and the money, but eventually with some luck the money will be back again.

Hate that cubicle? Did you ever sit in the front end of plane for 12 hours?

Download a picture of an instrument panel, spend a couple nights staring at it, have wife, girlfriend bring in some coffee every few hours and wait for the dawn. Go check in to a hotel, do NOT go home or any of your familiar things, repeat for a couple of days. The cubicle that lets you go home at 6, have a lunch out will look good.

GF

Are you saying you don't have a 4-year degree? The better employers prefer a degree.

5 years seems to be the cut off for most airlines, but I have heard of guys getting hired at age 62.

You can break into business/charter aviation without any regional time, but it takes connections. The regionals are a common starting point to get some turbine time.


At your age, if financing is a challenge you probably have no business going down this road. There is more to life than a job, and this job could cost your everything else that's good in your life.

I did exactly what you are talking about. About 20 years in the gov. Got my ratings while working. Summer VFR 135 job in Alaska. Hired to drive a C208 doing night freight, then to one of the Fedex feeders where I became a capt on the ATR in my late 40's, 2 years and counting in India logging lots of pic and positioning myself to finish my last 10 years at somewhere like Southern or Omni. Maybe make capt there if the upgrade time isn't more than 5 years. Flying for me is a hobby and remains so to this day. And with the Indian salary I hope to buy an old Cessna or Piper :-). Don't give up on the dream.

I suspect you have a federal retirement in your hip pocket? Takes a lot of the anxiety out of a career which offers no pension plan.

That is completely WRONG and ridiculous. I've only been flying professionally for a few years, but have been fortunate enough to experience flight instructing, charter, corporate, and a regional airline. I'm a career changer (former engineer) and am still having a blast! I don't regret my decision to leave the engineering life for this lifestyle one bit.

I will say though, the most bitter pilots I've ever met (and flown with) have had little professional working experience outside of aviation.

No federal retirement. I got in when it was FERS. Like 401k. Nope. I'm saving for retirement thru IRA's just like many others.

Gsoflyer

Yes, but you do get a basic annuity. 1% per year of FERS-covered employment times the years of service, collectible at age 62 without reduction of 3% per year under 62. So that is a pension plan.

Gf

Hey Steve..I was in a similar situation to you. At 38 I enrolled in a flight school which guaranteed an interview with a Regional Airline. The cost of the program, including my housing and stuff, was around 60k. I had 23 hours when I started. I, as you, had a dream that I needed to pursue. Fortunately, I was financially able to do it. I was hired at age 40.
I just thought I'd share some of my thoughts with you...from a Regional Airline side...
Yes...it is a rough lifestyle...and will be challenging at first. You will be scattered all over the country and really never feel like you have a home. You will be eating crappy airport food and somedays you will barely have time to eat at all. You will be working long hours...not necessarily flying, but on duty for long hours. Sometimes you will be extremely busy and other times you will be sitting in the corner of the airport listning to your ipod bored to death. You will think the company is abusing you, and they probably are! You will be living out of a suitcase for the majority of the week in hotels...sometimes I felt like I was in prison because I had no car and there was absolutely nothing to do anywhere around the hotel. You will sometimes be eating hotdogs from the gas station across the street because you got to the hotel so late that nothing else was open...Sometimes you may be able to convince the girl at MacD's to let you "walk" through the drive-thru. You will be getting to the hotel late and leaving early, sometimes with 5-6 hours of sleep (The FAA rest regulations stink). You will miss alot of events and functions with your family and friends. You will be made to work on your days off (Junior Assigned). If you don't live in your home base, you will have the stress of commuting.
Now...with that being said...You will also get to see many things that most people will never experience...A meteor shower at 41,000 feet...Hurricane Katrina over New Orleans...Incredible lightning shows from above a thunderstorm. You will also get to do many things that very few do...Land a Jet/TP in minimal visibility...On your long overnights, go to cities and towns that you would never get to experience.
Fact is, as with any job, there is good and bad. The grass always looks greener and 'sometimes' it is. This is true for those looking for a career change "TO" or "FROM" the industry.
Another big consideration is your family life. I have a very supportive wife with no children. If I had children, I honestly don't think I could have done this career.
You are doing the right thing by asking people on this board for there thoughts. I know alot of them are negative...but the fact is, there is a good bit of negative to the job. But, there is good too...probably one of the biggest is the fact that you can say to yourself, "I did it!"
Unfortunately, I think this is one of those decisions that you have to look very deep within yourself and tell yourself Yes or No. "Not" making a decision is what will eat you alive!
Best of luck to you, and if I can be of any more help, please let me know!

Tripper
 

Nicely written Tripper.

Skyhigh

Well done. Thank almost all of you, actually, for some well-written thoughts, both on the positive and... not necessarily negative, but "things to ponder" side. These are all good things to think about and hash over with my wife. We don't have kids, but the possibility for some later down the line is still there. Neither one of us want them any time soon, however.

I have a lot to pack into a small amount of time, especially if I am mostly interested in corporate work. A degree, appropriate ratings, and hours. Saint Louis University here in town has a professional aviation program that comes with a degree, but it's pretty expensive. I kinda doubt my ERAU classes from 1995-99 are any good any more.

Excellent thread! I am 33, have recently earned a multi-Engine commercial/inst. certificate. Up until about a year ago I had never really entertained the thought of an airline career. Sure, I've always had respect for pilots when I traveled and momentarily thought about how cool it would be to work in the cockpit. The smells of Airplanes and Jet exhaust sparked my imagination of a challenging and rewarding work envirionment. After earning an instrument certificate two years ago I began to think about how much I would like to learn to be a professional and work in the NAS everyday. I've been plugging away at it ever since. I know that it will be a challenging journey with no guarantees, but I'm old enough to know that there are NO guarantees in this life. Right now I have a decent job, and many of the folks in this forum would recommend staying where you have security. The truth is I am no less vulnerable than the guys hired at American Eagle last month. My plan is to learn as much as I can about this profession and give it everything I've got.

I literally just got done talking to a police officer from po dunk USA (not far from where I grew up) who will beat my SECOND year pay in his FIRST year by at least 14,000. He laughed when I told him my pay. This job is just that, a job. Not a career. Why is anyone clamoring this? I am at a run of the mill regional. Not Great Lakes, not Gulfstream, and things are this sad. I can't imagine what some of my Eagle friends think right now after yeras of 'paying dues' to maybe getting furloughed?

You seem like a happy chap. I'll be blunt, if you wanna stay happy, keep looking to the sky, and keep doing JUST THAT: LOOKING.
From a young idealists standpoint, aviation is great. Get to fly to cool places, hang out with the crew, fly awesome equipment yada yada yada. The fact is that things are not always as they seem. You will be a miserable regional first officer in five years, if you're lucky(after two years or so of starving as a flight instructor). By then, you will be pushing forty still waiting for a rj captain slot. Is that what you want: to be a forty year old regional fo? And as far as the "pilot shortage", you can forget about it; it is and always has been a myth.
If you REALLY love your wife and want to have a family with her, then set aside your giddy, childish dreams and be a responsible man. Stick with your current career.

Assuming you have a degree, you are in a lot better position than the original poster (younger too). Early thirties is about where I would draw the line...after that you really have struggle to justify the dues paying vs. the payoff. All you have to do is spend a few weeks to earn a instructor rating or two and you can start building time...even keep your day job while you do it.

But at your age make up your mind quickly.

We are to much in debt to stop!
In all seriousness many of us got into it as young 20 somethings that didn't know any better. It seemed like a good career with decent money (that's what the admissions reps were telling us anyways, they also told us we could have our PPLs in just 35 hours) We signed on the dotted line, and now owe our souls to the aviation dragon. I for one love what I do for a living. I got in to aviation to be an airline pilot, but stopped short when I realized my passion was to instruct. Given the aviation job market place, it could take you much more than you think to land that King Air job. Seriously entertain the idea of becoming a part time Flight Instructor on the side of your day job. Of course what you aim for is possible... but don't be surprised if it doesn't pan out the way you hope either.
Just my two tarnished pennies.

I disagree with this also. However, it depends on the person. Some will see it this way as why even bother with this career, but others including myself love it so and make a career out of it. The difference for me is that I enjoy aviation outside of work too. I fly when I can afford to rent a Cessna or Piper from my local flying club. When the AOPA convention is around, I'll make the effort to go. So I pretty much live and breathe aviation, outside of being an airport bum.

I too was a career changer, but was early enough to make the change (late 20s). To this date I've been a pilot for 15 years now and love it even more than when I first started. And this perspective holds although I'm currently furloughed, but with a class date in January for a new employer. I've been through 2 layoffs in the last 2 years, so you would think I would bolt out of this career, but no, I'm staying put!

I'm good at it and love it, so it's my career with all the ups and the downs. And I've worked both at the airlines and corporate. Corporate might be the thing for you, as opportunities can come with less than the usual amount of hours that would be required of airlines. It's all about networking for those jobs. Good luck whatever you do!

You sure write "We" a lot in your post, when it sounds like a lot of your problems are directly related to your poor decision making.

I got into aviation when I was in my mid-20s, and I researched the heck out of it. I quickly discovered that there are quick but extremely expensive ways to become a pilot, and slower but much more affordable ways to do it. Having a basic understanding of debt and potential difficulties paying off debt as an entry level commercial pilot, I took my time and paid cash for all of my ratings.

How many times have "we" (as readers of aviation internet forums) seen newbies ask about expensive flight training options, only to have them argue with us when we try to explain how miserable their life will be with all of that debt? Yet common sense goes right out the window, and instant gratification gets them into a terrible situation. Inevitably these same people come back years later, saddled with crippling debt and a bad attitude, complaining how they've been eating ramen noodles for years while living in some dumpy crashpad in Newark (or some other crappy city). It really is annoying, particularly since the most basic of financial planning skills would have meant a much, much better life for these folks.

There's absolutely no excuse for people that put themselves into these bad situations anymore... There is SO much data out there on how poorly pilots are typically paid the first few years, and how wide ranging flight training costs can be depending on how you approach it. This info has been readily available for at LEAST 10 years or more, so I really don't think there's any excuse for ignorance these days.

thank you for the advice rickair. I've managed to keep my head above water through all the training so far. I do have a two year degree and am planning on continuing. I am ready to apply as soon as I can build some more time. And for those who seem to despise going to work everyday, make a choice. "if not now, then when?" I have been working now for 17 years and have never had trouble finding a job. I understand the regional airline life is tough, but so am I. I've endured years of backbreaking work and I still have my health. I have also worked in customer service jobs and learned to put customers needs before my own. I did it all willingly and anytime I felt like the situation was not in my best interest, I moved on. No shame in that, you have to do what you think is right. Happiness is key. For me, the hardest part has been the training, the sacrifice of time and money to earn the ratings and not go into debt. My goal is the achievement; Landing the job. If I don't like the life, I'll move on.

I take full responsibility for the poor decision making of my immature 20 year old self. Then again, when I got into aviation I did so under a different set of personal circumstances, from where I am now. I'm still very happy with the mistakes I made as they landed me where I am now . "We" is just a generalization of all those who made the same mistakes as I did, (there are plenty of us) and I certainly don't agree that all the onus is on the pilot. Having worked at some larger pilot factories, I was put off by what the potential students were told by the admissions reps. But that is going off topic, so I'll end it there.

I do understand what you're saying, and dealing with decisions we made when younger is difficult sometimes. When I graduated college, I thought I had it made since I had an engineering degree. I bought a new motorcycle and a new car, and also ran up some credit cards. It was a hard lesson in financial responsibility, but eventually I did pay that stuff off. It was a good lesson, and as a result I'm very conservative with my spending now.