I think part of the problem here is we are at times talking past each other as there are so many different aspects floating around in this thread.

I agree with everything you say here, except the one part you don't quite say. I think you have an excellent plan as far as it goes, and you will definitely gain a good deal of experience along the way. What isn't quite said, but what I get from reading this is after busting your hump CFI'ing (good for you, excellent experience) in a 141 program, you'd go straight to a regional if that was an option. This is the part I take issue with - as I said before:

[QUOTE=bcrosier;1230971]The path I'm referring to is the one where you don't do all of your flying in ANY university, 141, or 121 operation. One where you gain 1000 or more hours as the lonely guy on a nasty winter's night/facing down a squall line/running low on fuel when all the airports nearby are going below minimums, who has to make the hard decision whether to takeoff/continue/divert/whatever without anyone but yourself and your knowledge and skills to rely on. I will GUARANTEE you THAT educational path produces a pilot who is VASTLY SUPERIOR to a pilot who did any structured, instructed for a while (and I'm all for being a CFI; you will learn VOLUMES from doing it - but it's not a complete education in and of itself either), {emphasis added} then hired on as a 121 FO with less than ATP minimums. [QUOTE]

Being a CFI really is great experience, and too many people on here sell it short - but it doesn't give you as rich a background if you stick only to that without diversifying your experience some.

The original context of this discussion was framed in your statement that you supported the reduced minimums. I've been trying to explain why just taking the shortest path from any school to the regionals is not the best path for your overall growth as a professional aviator.

In short, in any highly structured and controlled environment such as 141, 121, or even a highly structured 61 school, you have multiple layers of people overseeing you to ensure that nothing bad happens. Spend some time out of that environment, where the only one watching out for you is you, and you will gain another dimension of experience that WILL benefit you as you progress in your career.

Again, great plan - just don't stop there with it! Whether it be aerial survey, pipeline patrol, flying the bush, 135, or a small 91 corporate operation - do that for at least a year or two, THEN move on to the world of 121 (if that is still where you want to go at that point)

Now, to the part where your definsiveness takes over and your logic breaks down:

Now let's be careful and define our terms here:

• We'll assume that statistic is true (I suspect it's high, but let's go with it).
• We're really talking about pilots at the majors, since we know there have been many zero-to-hero's hired at the regionals in the past ten years who have cut corners, so let's throw that out of the mix.

Given these, no - 1/4 of U.S. major airline pilots didn't cut corners. When they were coming up through the ranks, you typically had 2000 hours or more before even being considered for a regional. The did have to go out and build experience doing all of the things discussed elsewhere.



If you have all the merit based awards you say (and I assume you do), you should quite easily be able to figure this out for yourself. You may not like the answer, but it's still the answer.


Finally, moving on to school choice: I know you have your heart set on ER, but at least consider what a few of the recent posts have said, such as:




It's been said and it's true - airlines do not care what your degree is in (and I can't emphasize that enough - they really don't, just have a 4-year degree and decent grades). The converse is not the case, many businesses outside of aviation will accept a variety of degrees, but one in aviation (they don't see value in that) from a university that people outside of aviation know nothing about has very limited utility. Do an informal survey amongst acquaintances - name virtually any state school or university in a major sports conference and ask them if they've heard of it and if it's a good school. Then ask the same of an aviation only university - see what your results are. This is essentially the same thing that will happen when your resume crosses a non-aviation desk along with 157 others. It's something to think about.


I'm probably a little hard on you here because in many ways you seem to resemble me from years back (don't worry, if you try you can avoid turning into an a$$#0!@). I lived and breathed aviation, I got my private in high school, and read just about everything I could lay my hands on concerning aviation.


I was determined to go into a flight program - semi-unfortunately for me, my grades in HS didn't quite make the cut at the time. Instead I got my A&P along with pretty much all of the flight courses (there were a few I couldn't get into, but in retrospect I didn't miss too much in not taking them). Today I consider NOT getting into the flight school and essentially being forced to get my A&P the second biggest favor the university could have done me - the A&P ticket along with my outside the university experience opened up doors that would not have been available otherwise.


Why do I consider it the second biggest favor? Because in all honesty, the biggest favor would have been forcing me to get a degree in a "normal" field. As has been said, things change, stuff happens, through circumstances you may not end up where you think you will. Options are your friend, and sadly an aviation degree doesn't do a very good job of providing them.


Well, once again what was intended to be a quick reply has turned into another novel - sorry about that.

Indeed. As an example - I knew of a pilot who inadvertently took a medication prescribed for his son (I believe it was for ADD, but I could be mistaken). He recognized the error and self disclosed the mistake. I may be wrong on the specifics, but the FAA stripped him of his privileges (I don't know if they just took the medical, or did a revocation), he had to go through rehab (for an addiction he didn't have), and then train for and pass a rating ride (again, I don't know if it was a 609/709 or a complete re-test) to regain his privileges. I believe he was out for over a year, for an honest mistake that he disclosed.

And the FAA is easy compared to Asia, Europe, the Middle East...

Yes, I know all about the joys of NAMI. The power to destroy the bright future of a young naval aviator in training lies in the hands of its many evil doctors!

I actually was just briefed by an AME on the subject of FAA medicals; there are certain things you can get away with, such as a bad heart, but no sign of trauma, you're just taking pills to keep the blood pressure down, that sort of thing. The rules aren't set in stone, either. You have to present your case to the FAA, and all the power of the decision lies in their hands. A doctor's note does not guarantee anything.

The FAA medical shouldn't be generally "feared", but it does deserve a healthy dose of "respect" - and proper planning in the case of failure.

I know that. Something that I see a lot around here is: "Airlines don't care if you have a degree in basket weaving!" I'm not getting a degree to get hired by the airlines. I'm doing it to better myself in a field in which I'm truly interested in.

First of all, the "Embry-Riddle name" is not a selling point for me. I know that it's not as prestigious as it once was (if ever). I don't care if it was called "Big Jim's Kool 'n Awesome Flight College." (Actually, that name would make me hesitate, but still...) I'm attracted to it because of (a) what they teach and (b) how they teach it.

(A) I'm interested in the actual topics in the Aeronautical Science curriculum. (http://daytonabeach.erau.edu/degrees...nce/index.html; click on "Requirements")

Courses like Aerodynamics and EFMS and Flight Safety and Aviation Legislation excite me; they're topics that I genuinely enjoy learning about. College is supposed to be interesting! And aviation is the most interesting topic to learn about in general for me. As I'll say below, I am aware that this component is available at aviation-specialty state colleges.

(B) I like the flight training model. First of all, I'm getting the PPL before college. But the way, for example, my Instrument Rating would be taught is a two-step process. First it's taught in a traditional classroom setting. But the difference at ER (and other similar places) is that for example, that very afternoon, I could be seeing what I was taught in real life application. You literally walk from classroom to aircraft. I know that you can do ground school at a state college and fly at a separate place, but this way, it's coordinated and really is synchronized. I know I've said it before, but this is the best way, for me, to learn.

Finally, a misc. benefit - some major airline internships (United comes to mind; Delta strongly prefers it) only accept applicants from certain aviation or aviation-specialized institutions. (ERAU, UND, etc.) Internships could be the key to (a) bypassing the regionals [God, are you listening?] or (b) spending less time at a regional.

I'm not trying to "sell" anyone on ERAU. But I want to justify my point of view as I make my decision.

Just wondering, how many airline pilot (% approx.) have their medical revoked?

skylover, are you against going into the military? I think you'd love it.

I believe the doc told us something like 500 a year get denied.

Exactly....about NAMI and CAMI.
Ah no - I didn't say CAMI was unreasonable. I've actually found them to be quite reasonable in my dealings with them, but it certainly wasn't as easy as waltzing in a single note from my doctor either, nor is it that easy every year with the little *extras* I have to do either.

USMCFLYR

To be honest, I've really never been a gun/fighter plane/bomber/war-type person. It just isn't a good fit for me, I think.

Who do you think usually wants peace more than the ones called upon to participate skylover?
Ever see the cargo guys or helos lifting in tons of supplies after a tsunami or earthquake?
Enjoy that freedom of choice you have; others only dream of it.

USMCFLYR