SVTCobra

Guess I'm another lucky one with no 4 year degree.

JohnBurke

Not at all.

In fact, it was an itch to scratch and nothing more. I quit to go do something else.

It wasn't a moment of extreme fortune, nor was it the pinnacle of a career. It was interesting, but little more.

bcrosier

I was alluding to your cryptic references to the fact that you are allegedly a 747 captain, but without any meaningful reference to whom you would be captaining said 747 for, along with other snarky bits which you have dispensed. Along those lines, you are making an ass of yourself by assuming I didn't get that part of the reference - it cuts both ways.

This is aviation? Oh, crap - I thought I was at bingo night at the local senior center. Thank you for these pearls of wisdom O great oracle of aviation knowledge. I don't know how I've made it all these years without your sage counsel.

However, accordingly, I don't assume you are who you say you are until you provide some context in which to frame and evaluate said claims. Doing so on the internet is, frankly, idiotic.

Actually, you did tacitly imply it in your responses to Rickair. Allow me to refresh your memory:

Your italicized response to the final (bolded) statement of Rickair lends the implication that you were indeed hired recently, as a 747CA, at a US airline.

Based on how quick you are to point out where anyone has a flawed assumption about your qualifications, your failure to disavow this does indeed imply that you fit those criteria.

To wit:

Even after this, you have not corrected or refuted Rickair's assumptions.

And spare me the self righteous "this is aviation - we don't assume" malarchy. This isn't aviation, this is an aviation forum on the internet. Unless you're going to post the details of your position and history, we have to make assumptions as to where you're coming from. I'm betting you've made some about me.

Beyond that, in reality we assume all the time: We assume the mechanic didn't pencil whip the inspection, we assume the fueler filled the aircraft with Jet-A and not Mr. Bubble, we assume the agents did their job correctly and loaded the aircraft properly (unless of course you use your bathroom scale and weigh every pallet as it's loaded onto a 747 freighter (and I'm not assuming you fly a freighter, but I did), we assume that the overflight permit numbers our dispatch has given us are correct and valid, we assume the flight attendant didn't spit in our meals...

Gee willikers, there he goes assuming again. You're assuming they haven't been. What I am doing is questioning the veracity of the information you are providing.

Now we're getting somewhere. Since you weren't hired as a captain, the question then arises as to how long have you been at your current employer? More to the point, when were you hired there without a degree, and what are the T/C's of that position so the gentle reader may infer for him or herself of the quality of position you have obtained without a degree?

Ok, you've got me here - I really am not interested in utilizing you for networking. Like I said earlier, I'm more intrigued by the claims you are making without providing any background information which would substantiate them. Asking was simply a deferential way of putting that.

Each of the last three jobs I've gotten has been at least partially through the assistance of others. Networking? - perhaps you'd call it that, but my take on it is slightly different. I don't brown nose and rub shoulders with people who can help me. I have friends and associates who are familiar with me and my work, and have been more than willing to assist me in obtaining a position because they felt it would be mutually beneficial for myself and the company in question. I've never cared about a "gouge" for and interview, and I don't believe in the sort of preparation which many go for where they memorize what are assumed to be the correct answers. I probably am old school in that I truly believe that I want the company to hire me for who I am and what I bring to the table - not simply because I can memorize the right line of BS.

But that statement comes after much pontificating about how one doesn't need a degree. Once upon a time, the same claim was made about doctors. Times and basic qualification expectations change. Does a degree directly relate to operating an aircraft - no. While you are correct that one can certainly succeed without one, a person attempting to do so is greatly limiting their available options. You can complain all day long about the unfairness of it, but it is the reality of today. I can also complain all day long about the unfairness (and ridiculousness) of the amount of influence HR has in hiring at most companies; nonetheless it is the reality, and it would be disingenuous of me to tell someone interested in this profession that it wasn't so.

I have that as well as the degree. I've found both to be useful. Again, the question isn't which is of more use in the cockpit. I could be a combination of Orville Wright, Bob Hoover, and Chesley Sullenberger (who has several degrees, BTW); and if me resume never makes it past the mailroom because I don't have a degree it's all for naught.

Hello pot, meet kettle...

TheFly

So......what are the options without a 4 year degree? Would be nice to stay on topic.

SVTCobra

UAL; US Airways; Atlas; JetBlue; SWA; Virgin America; UPS (When they were hiring)

JohnBurke

I am not allegedly a 747 captain. I am not a 747 captain. I was a 747 captain. I quit.

I neither said, nor implied at any time that I was hired as a captain. I stated that I made it to captain. That did not happen over night, and I was never hired as a captain in the 747. I was hired as a first officer, and upgraded to captain.

I said nothing about salary. The other quotes you've taken out of order and out of context are not all mine; they are assumptions by another poster who made big leaps with nothing to support them.

I said nothing about recent hiring. I did say I'm not "old school" or part of some old system that no longer exists. The same openings and the same pathway I took are still there. It's not some ancient hiring window that existed for old timers.

No time frame was given. It's also irrelevant; the topic is a college degree, and the fact is that while I'm absolutely nothing special, I still managed to upgrade to and hold a captain position without a degree. Imagine that. With the crowd of lemmings chanting that it's not possible, here's someone who still did it. Of course, the lemmings quickly chime in that it must be some lucky freak of nature, and that it wouldn't be possible for anything else. Feel free to keep your head buried under that same quagmire too. It's comical, really.

You can read. Imagine that. You must be a college graduate.

I didn't complain one bit. Perhaps that's just another assumption on your part.

A crying shame, but irrelevant. There are plenty of other places to apply.

bcrosier

Editorial note: Original posting replaced due to excessive toolishness on my part (yes quite an accomplishment I realize).

First: Quit misrepresenting the facts. My quotes are from both yourself and Rickair are presented together in and for context, and ARE IN ORDER!

Second: YOU were the one who stated, "Wrong again. I'm here. Now." Implying that you are currently a 747 CA.

To your last paragraph: On the contrary, it has been widely acknowledged that it can be done. The questions arise as to when it was done and what the quality of the position was. The time frame of the hiring is extremely relevant, as is the compensation and quality of the position.

Too many people see 747 pilot and automatically assume it's a great job. Sadly, there have been many 747 operators paying crap wages, with poor QOL, and negligible benefits. I don't know it one of those places is where you worked or not, but many of those types of operators are the ones who would happily hire without a degree. Yes, I don't doubt that one can (even today) become a 747 CA without a college degree. If that is the only metric by which one chooses to measure their career, then that will suffice.

On the other hand, if compensation, QOL, benefits, and stability (at least in aviation terms) are important - then one quickly finds the options limited without a degree. Can one get hired at WN without a degree? Yes. Are the odds of getting hired better with one - I don't know for certain, but I'd bet $5 that they are.

JohnBurke

Ah, there it is. When running out of intelligent banter, your ilk usually falls back on the "skygod" crap.

Must one be some kind of skygod to work into a position in a 747? You might think so. I never did, and still don't.

If you say so. Tell the hairdresser of the cousin of your neighbors son that the job will probably be there waiting when he wants it back, and you're right. It's just not that big a deal.

Learflyer

Ha! Define "educated"? If Going to a brick and mortar school for four years and racking up 100k in student loans is being "educated" then I feel sorry for you. You guys are acting like we are in pre-2006 times. Well. We're not. We 're living in a new normal now of 7% + unemployment, and where a TON of people have four year degrees, and more people than ever have an MBA. What's being educated (nowadays) is taking CLEP and DANTE'S exams to test your way out of a degree at a non-profit institution and getting that SAME degree at a fraction of the cost.