Airline Pilot Central Forums - My problem (DUI arrests)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1393229)

Yoda, Citation, and other experts, what's your best wisdom on refusing to blow for a routine DUI stop? I had have heard pro and con along these lines-

Con (you should never blow at the traffic stop)

• You are within your legal rights to refuse your breath being personal property in a legal sense, breathalyzing is poor (junk) science, and the latter I tend to believe based on my own experiments with one certified breathalyzer

• They say only direct blood samples can show accurately what you have in your blood, and it is better to not supply the prosecutor breathalyzer data which also may be tampered by unscrupulous personnel.

Pro says
• You are likely to be assumed guilty and parked for a long time if you refuse a test, so just give it to them.

Thoughts?

I do know what I would do; however I am not an attorney, law is just one of my hobbies. Therefore I don't feel it prudent to dispense any legal advice. That would be for an attorney experienced and current in these matters and I don't think even they would put forth much useful advice on a forum such as this... However I can offer some practical advice including a true story, an actual scenario in which an airline captain had a very bad day. I'll start with that. A Captain with a major airline checked into his layover hotel as he had done many times. He did not want to drink at the hotel bar and instead took a taxi to his favorite local watering hole. He also took a taxi back to the hotel when he was finished. So far so good... He exited the cab, payed the driver and proceeded to walk through the main lobby directly to his room. He almost made it. During his walk through the lobby he encountered a drunk that had just walked out of the hotel bar, they did not know each other; shortly after, an altercation ensued in the lobby. The captain got the best of the guy but they both ended up going to jail. The captain was prosecuted for several charges and lost his job and career in addition to feeling the wrath of the FAA.

Personally, I rarely drink. However a suggestion for pilots that do is absolutely to take a cab or use a designated driver or better yet, drink at home. Especially younger pilots have no idea how close they can come to sabotaging their careers. I have seen it happen. I know of a guy who went drinking to celebrate his initial CFI, that he received earlier in the day; DWI and career over... It's not just DWI the FAA is looking at either. It is anything alcohol or drug related. A drunk in public charge will screw you up just the same. Operating a bicycle, skate board or horse while intoxicated will also get one in trouble, as you are not on your feet, rather operating a conveyance which is generally a hightened charge...

Quote:

Con (you should never blow at the traffic stop)

• You are within your legal rights to refuse your breath being personal property in a legal sense, breathalyzing is poor (junk) science, and the latter I tend to believe based on my own experiments with one certified breathalyzer

In most jurisdictions, you can be tagged for refusal to take an alcohol test. You may be able to get away with refusing to take the breath test, but you'll be subject to other forms of testing. Refusal to take a test can be grounds for suspension of driving privileges, and it can be grounds for refusal of employment.

It would be very unwise to refuse a breath test. If you tag positive, then you can always request a blood test.

Better yet, don't drink and drive. I have zero sympathy for anyone who does. Ever.

Quote:

• They say only direct blood samples can show accurately what you have in your blood, and it is better to not supply the prosecutor breathalyzer data which also may be tampered by unscrupulous personnel.

Following a forced landing due to an engine failure a few years ago, I met with the county sheriff on scene, and requested an alcohol test. He had a breathalyzer available, and I took that. He provided the results, which I then provided to an agency investigation team the next day to ensure my name stayed clear.

No one is going to tamper with a breath test any more than a blood test.

Quote:

Pro says
• You are likely to be assumed guilty and parked for a long time if you refuse a test, so just give it to them.

Thoughts?

Refusal is an offense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 1393229)

Ok, Francis, a DUI is by no means a career ender.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobecrazy (Post 1393028)

I think I know what course of action I need to take next but would like some opinions before I continue.

Once again, I'm willing to fight as much as I can to make this happen as it has always been my dream. What do you think? Thanks!

Sincerely,
TBC

Personally, I think you should you should get into a drug/alcohol treatment program before you harm yourself or others. Two arrests for DWI is a symptom of something far more serious. Get some professional help and then concentrate on your flying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by citation35hf (Post 1393304)

Ok, Francis, a DUI is by no means a career ender.

First of all, be polite. Secondly, for many it has been. It depends on how it is handled and other circumstances; and you know that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 1393290)

Please, define "tagged" for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 1393290)

It would be very unwise to refuse a breath test. If you tag positive, then you can always request a blood test.

Tag positive? There is no such wording in criminal law. By "tag positive" do you mean test over BrAC of .08 by a certified machine? Once you have failed a chemical test you are not going to be offered a different test at that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 1393290)

No one is going to tamper with a breath test any more than a blood test.

Your lack of knowledge of how a DUI/OVI/DWI arrest/prosecution works is doing no favors to anyone on this forum. Yes, there are quite many ways in which a blood draw can be thrown out in court and that can prove very helpful in having a DUI dismissed. The word "tamper" should not be taken as literally as I believe you have done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda2 (Post 1393314)

First of all, be polite. Secondly, for many it has been. It depends on how it is handled and other circumstances; and you know that.

First of all, I am not your child talking to grandma at dinner. So your "be polite" comment only makes me raise an eyebrow.

We have hired guys with more than one DUI at RAH recently, so once again, a DUI is by no means a career ender.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobecrazy (Post 1393074)

Sorry Sir, my mistake on saying training. I meant as soon as I am competitive. I was informed by BOTH that I don't need Instructor certs just focus on getting commercial and ME. Then I just need to take a CRJ course. That being said I plan on getting them anyways and instruct whenever able

They don't know anything if they think a CRJ course will help and that having your CFI will not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by citation35hf (Post 1393339)

Well that explains alot... Thanks

Quote:

First of all, I am not your child talking to grandma at dinner.

You sure mouth off like a child.

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We have hired guys with more than one DUI at RAH recently, so once again, a DUI is by no means a career ender.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement, there.

RAH isn't exactly a "career," either.

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Tag positive? There is no such wording in criminal law.

I'm not a criminal attorney, so go figure. I was in law enforcement, however. You?

Yes: if an additional test is requested, depending on the jurisdiction, it may be given. A subject, having failed a sobriety test, was often given a breathalyzer test, and could request, or be given, a blood test as well. It's not necessary, and not all jurisdictions will do that, but it is done. It's also worth noting that in some, but not all jurisdictions, one can agree to a blood test while requesting not to take a breath test.

Quote:

Yes, there are quite many ways in which a blood draw can be thrown out in court and that can prove very helpful in having a DUI dismissed.

If you're stupid enough to drive drunk, you deserve what you get. You seem more interested in discussing ways to beat the system. I'm more interested in seeing you nailed to the wall and left to rot, if you insist on being part of the problem. Forget "being helpful" in getting a DUI dismissed. Don't drive drunk in the first place.

Quote:

The word "tamper" should not be taken as literally as I believe you have done.

Perhaps you're looking for "mishandled" instead. Semantics. Who cares? It's either useful, or its not. Tampering with evidence is obstruction of justice and is a crime. Carelessness, neglect, improper administration, lack of calibrated equipment, too much passage of time prior, and other reasons contribute to lack of a conviction.

Frankly, I'd just as soon see the drunk driver crucified.