choppersafety

Hello,

I just want to preface my question with a little bit of a background on myself. Eight years active duty with the U.S. Army as a helicopter pilot and aviation safety officer. I will be leaving the military in a few months. I have a bachelor’s degree and I am about six months out from completion of my master’s degree in aviation safety. FAA Commercial Pilot License. Graduate of the University of Southern California Aviation Safety and Security program and the U.S. Army Aviation Safety Officer course.

I am looking to get into the aviation safety/accident investigation career field upon leaving the military.

I don’t have intentions of working as an aviation mechanic but I would like to get my FAA Airframe and Powerplant license to supplement my aviation safety/accident investigation knowledge and I have always had an interest in aviation maintenance.

The financial aspect is not an issue (Post-9/11 Montgomery G.I. Bill will cover the training/schooling). No dependents to worry about.

So my question… would it be beneficial to attend a school (community college for example) to get my FAA Airframe and Powerplant license to help with my aviation safety/accident investigation knowledge?

Thank you for your insight and help.

hypoxia

I started out as a Helicopter Mechanic in the Army and went to A&P school on the GI Bill at a community college while taking flying lessons. I now fly for the airlines. Although I don't "wrench" anymore, I believe the knowledge I gained from the schooling is invaluable at so many levels! I am sure it will make you a better accident investigator, pilot, mechanic and critical thinker. Is it necessary, probably not but is it valuable? Absolutely!

choppersafety

Hypoxia,

I have no fixed wing experience unfortunately and my maintenance/parts and pieces knowledge is basic and is all rotary wing related.

Coming from the Army, what was the A and P program at the community college like?

With no fixed wing experience, would attending an A and P program be an uphill battle for me technical-wise? I am interested in the program and I understand they vary between 1.5 - 2 years and require study and dedication. I just don't want to get myself in over my head.

Thank you for the response.

hypoxia

The General, Airframe and Powerplant curriculum may favor fixed wing but it does not exclude other aircraft. An A&P can work on Helicopters, Gliders, Airplanes, Gyrocopters, etc. The curriculum is approved by the FAA and can included: AC and DC electricity, Blueprints, Airframe class and lab, Powerplant class and lab, helicopter theory, turbine course, welding course, machine shop, etc. My training in the Army was more specific and the training in A&P school was more broad!

There are accelerated programs out there that claim to get you an A&P in about 15 months. You obviously don't need another college degree so that should chop some time off. If you flew helicopters you certainly have the aeronautical knowledge, the systems knowledge and the attention to detail. You will not be in "over your head!"

I don't know if it interests you but I would also look into getting a commercial fixed wing add-on! I think you'll have more opportunities open to you. Often accident investigators hop in simulators or use computer simulations to recreate the situation that led to the accident. Having a fixed wing license would certainly be beneficial and I believe an add-on can be done in as little as 50 hours.

rickair7777

Helo vs. FW background shouldn't matter much for A&P training. An airframe is an airframe, the helo's wing attachments are just more complicated.

Be advised the A&P is a lot of work. I would suggest ensuring that your career goals make sense vis a vis the A&P cert. While many accident investigators have an A&P, they probably all have extensive work experience. I'm not sure how much value a wet A&P will have unless you want an apprentice mechanic job. I'd consider the cost and effort carefully.

choppersafety

I am still researching different community college programs at this time. I have a few months left to make up my mind. Thank you both for the information and I wish you guys the best.

JohnBurke

Aviation maintenance training won't be an uphill battle for you at all. Without practical experience, however, what you get out of a maintenance school isn't a lot. As with most endeavors, your learning begins upon leaving the school and going to work.

Having the credentials isn't a bad thing, but there are a lot of A&P certificate holders running around out there with full privileges to work on airframes and powerplants, who should never be let near a wrench.

choppersafety

JohnBurke,

Why do you say there are plenty of A and P certificate holders out there that shouldn't be near a wrench? Are there problems in the industry with the quality of the A and P certificate holders that come out of these programs?

I am just curious. Thank you.

JohnBurke

One is qualified to hold a mechanic certificate when graduating, but that's about it. One isn't worth much as a mechanic. It takes years on the job to really learn anything about aircraft maintenance. It's one thing to be able to drive a rivet or torque a fastner. It's another thing to be able to properly exercise the privileges of a certificate.

I dealt with some graduates of a certification program with a college a few years ago who couldn't properly remove a screw. When they buggered it up, they'd never seen or used a screw extractor. One genius was going to carve up the floor on a C-130 to get at the back of the fastener.

Your question specifically regarded whether completing such a program would enhance your value as a safety specialist. It might enhance your credentials by giving you one more item on a resume, but having the certificate wouldn't make you a mechanic. It would make you the holder of a mechanic certificate, and there is a big difference.

Getting the mechanic certificate is a little like getting your private pilot certificate. It would give you a taste of what's involved, but that's it. It wouldn't really be a springboard to enable you to have a good understanding or grasp of aircraft mechanics, any more than getting a commercial pilot certificate gives you any level of expertise or understanding of what it means to fly professionally. Getting the certificate is the first step, the proverbial license to learn. That's it.

hypoxia

In the airline industry so much maintenance work is getting contracted out to foreign facilities to save money! Many of these "wrenches" don't even hold a mechanic license. I agree with John Burke that upon graduation you have a "license to learn" but I also believe many students were good mechanics before even attending an A&P school.

The A&P school teaches you that there are rules, regulations, paperwork, certified parts as well as the basics of aviation maintenance. Without that training and knowledge these mechanics could probably figure out how to fix it with "bailing wire" but it wouldn't be legal and probably not safe! In addition, many mechanics learn to specialize just like a Physician. Some are great in avionics and electronics others in organization and management. I'm sure you will bring a unique set of skills and will find a niche to fill but everyone needs to learn the basics. The FAA offers a route to earn an A&P through 30 months of apprenticeship as well. Learning by doing is great but getting the theory is also just as important!

I personally feel I suck as a mechanic overall although I have a high degree of expertise in a couple areas of maintenance. However, I believe the theory I learned has given me a different perspective than fellow pilots who aren't mechanics.