Should I go for it? 21 years old
11-13-2013, 01:59 PM
#41
missionary
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right seat 787 or missionary
Posts: 98
It's all in the timing and who you know
I don't honestly know what the future holds. I do know that I stopped saying it can't get any worse.
Everywhere I go, work is a four-letter word. When you make something you love your job, it becomes just that, a job. But, I've got to do something. So, I might as well do this. It's just a way to pay the mortgage.
That being said, the guys that have it the best at my airline got an early start, usually thru nepotism. Some, amazingly have no college. Some are ERAU and the like. Others pencil-whipped their time. But, just like anywhere else, it's whom you know and timing. So, the sooner daddy got you on the property, the better off you were in the long run. You still paid your dues. But, you got thru them sooner.
At this same airline there are airlines within the airline. There are guys at the top of the seniority list that have no clue how the junior guys have it and they could care less. I got mine, screw you. They're out of touch with your reality. They actually have some quality of life. Then there's a whole generation affected by the last 13 years. It was one blow after the other. So, there are have and have nots. That hasn't changed. But, what has changed is that there are no longer any perks for the 12-yr FO. There's very little good deal left. What there is enjoyed by those at the top, where you'll never eve be.
So, at the same airline, you've got one guy who started on the ramp and upgraded to FE, FO and then CA at only 6 years with the company. There are other post FE guys that upgraded at year 4-1/2. Now, you're looking at a 15-yr upgrade. Even then, at year 15, the decision is one of only money. In other words, even at year 15 as an FO there is no quality of life; so, you might as well take the upgrade for almost the same QoL you'll get paid a little more. So, once again it's all timing.
Are the good times going to come around again? I honestly don't think so. The industry has forced productivity increases out of all of us. We're working more for less. We're cashing back our vacation and working for straight time. We're prostituting ourselves out for straight-time. We've lost contacts and lost work rules thru bankruptcy. We've rolled-over and voluntarily given productivity increases to stay competitive with the low-cost carriers and bankruptcy protected carriers. Worst of all, we're our worst enemies. Unless that changes, I don't seeing it turning around and the good times coming back.
I asked the same question you're asking years ago. I kept asking it until I heard the answer that I wanted to hear. It's human nature. If I had to do it all over again, I'd do a risk vs reward analysis, an objective pro vs con analysis. I'd search out those cons, even the ones that seem implausible.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't want my son or daughter to follow in my footsteps. I've tried to be the best father I can. But, I wasn't there and am still not there for them. I've missed their lives.
Even when I'm home, I'm recovering from some trip that just flipped from the front side to the back side and back again. All there is is contractual and legal. There's no room for the right thing when it comes to QoL.
The happiest guys in this industry that I know are the ones without kids. They have only possessions and toys, to include their wives and or girlfriends. It's all about them. There's no college to worry about. There isn't one good kid and one bad kid. Their daughter or son isn't in rehab. When we fly together, I show pictures of the wife kids and dog. They show me pictures of their airplane(s) or class-A motorhome. They're living their life every day.
This is just how I see it. Whatever you do, make an educated decision. Get both sides. Get the good and the bad. Just don't seek out people who will tell you only what you want to hear.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have stayed flying for Uncle Sam. The money would have been better and it would have been better on my family.
Everywhere I go, work is a four-letter word. When you make something you love your job, it becomes just that, a job. But, I've got to do something. So, I might as well do this. It's just a way to pay the mortgage.
That being said, the guys that have it the best at my airline got an early start, usually thru nepotism. Some, amazingly have no college. Some are ERAU and the like. Others pencil-whipped their time. But, just like anywhere else, it's whom you know and timing. So, the sooner daddy got you on the property, the better off you were in the long run. You still paid your dues. But, you got thru them sooner.
At this same airline there are airlines within the airline. There are guys at the top of the seniority list that have no clue how the junior guys have it and they could care less. I got mine, screw you. They're out of touch with your reality. They actually have some quality of life. Then there's a whole generation affected by the last 13 years. It was one blow after the other. So, there are have and have nots. That hasn't changed. But, what has changed is that there are no longer any perks for the 12-yr FO. There's very little good deal left. What there is enjoyed by those at the top, where you'll never eve be.
So, at the same airline, you've got one guy who started on the ramp and upgraded to FE, FO and then CA at only 6 years with the company. There are other post FE guys that upgraded at year 4-1/2. Now, you're looking at a 15-yr upgrade. Even then, at year 15, the decision is one of only money. In other words, even at year 15 as an FO there is no quality of life; so, you might as well take the upgrade for almost the same QoL you'll get paid a little more. So, once again it's all timing.
Are the good times going to come around again? I honestly don't think so. The industry has forced productivity increases out of all of us. We're working more for less. We're cashing back our vacation and working for straight time. We're prostituting ourselves out for straight-time. We've lost contacts and lost work rules thru bankruptcy. We've rolled-over and voluntarily given productivity increases to stay competitive with the low-cost carriers and bankruptcy protected carriers. Worst of all, we're our worst enemies. Unless that changes, I don't seeing it turning around and the good times coming back.
I asked the same question you're asking years ago. I kept asking it until I heard the answer that I wanted to hear. It's human nature. If I had to do it all over again, I'd do a risk vs reward analysis, an objective pro vs con analysis. I'd search out those cons, even the ones that seem implausible.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't want my son or daughter to follow in my footsteps. I've tried to be the best father I can. But, I wasn't there and am still not there for them. I've missed their lives.
Even when I'm home, I'm recovering from some trip that just flipped from the front side to the back side and back again. All there is is contractual and legal. There's no room for the right thing when it comes to QoL.
The happiest guys in this industry that I know are the ones without kids. They have only possessions and toys, to include their wives and or girlfriends. It's all about them. There's no college to worry about. There isn't one good kid and one bad kid. Their daughter or son isn't in rehab. When we fly together, I show pictures of the wife kids and dog. They show me pictures of their airplane(s) or class-A motorhome. They're living their life every day.
This is just how I see it. Whatever you do, make an educated decision. Get both sides. Get the good and the bad. Just don't seek out people who will tell you only what you want to hear.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have stayed flying for Uncle Sam. The money would have been better and it would have been better on my family.
Last edited by GearBoy; 11-13-2013 at 02:09 PM. Reason: typo
11-13-2013, 03:21 PM
#42
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
Originally Posted by DreamToFlyy
I am basically in the same boat as the beginning of this post, I am 21 about to graduate in the spring and plan on going to an accelerated flight school. From reading I found the main negatives are the impact on family life and being away from your family for the holidays. I don't have a wife or kid and don't plan on it for a while, maybe my late twenties early thirties. So it seems if you are young enough some of the largest sacrifices of aviation may not affect you in the worst part of your career.
Originally Posted by DreamToFlyy
Also on page 2 there were a lot of people arguing about transferable skills to other jobs. Why do majors require college degrees? My engineering degree won't effect my ability to fly effectively and safely. It shows dedication, the ability to obtain goals and hard work. I would doubt that many employers would find the fact that you flew commercial jets as a professional pilot useless, especially if you have a college degree on top of that. I honestly think they would be intrigued and impressed as most of you thought of professional pilots going into this career whether you still love it or hate it. If you weren't impressed by professional pilots you probably would not have gone into this career.
If you want a pilot career, go for it. If not, don't even go down that road. You'll be paying dues for nothing and bringing down the average pay scale for the rest of us.
11-14-2013, 06:12 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by iPilot88
Yes, another one of these questions. 
I am 21 years old, about 1.5 years away from a bachelors degree in Health information management. I currently have my private pilots license which I received after 41 hours of flight time. My dream is to fly and actually get paid descent for it lol. Hopefully a major in the future.
I should be able to pay for all flight training without accumulating any debt. I'm thinking about purchasing an airplane to help cut down on costs and then instruct out of it once I become a CFI. I also have minimal debt from college that should be easy to pay off.
I work as a janitor at the high school I graduated from lol but it works out good as all my classes are online so I can live at home and work and save money. My new fiance whom I proposed to in the plane and wrote marry me? in a field (so romantic I know
) works as registered nurse and is fully supportive of me doing this and makes enough to support us both. My flight instructor is a first officer for American and should have some connections for me I hope.
So if you were in my situation, what would you do? I feel like I am in a good position, just hard work and a lot of flying ahead.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
(Railroad is another option which I have also been trying to get on to. My friend, same age as me, just finished engineer training and he showed me his two week pay stub of almost 4600 dollars. Kind of hard to say no to that amount of pay but then end up doing something I'm not too interested in.)
I am 21 years old, about 1.5 years away from a bachelors degree in Health information management. I currently have my private pilots license which I received after 41 hours of flight time. My dream is to fly and actually get paid descent for it lol. Hopefully a major in the future.
I should be able to pay for all flight training without accumulating any debt. I'm thinking about purchasing an airplane to help cut down on costs and then instruct out of it once I become a CFI. I also have minimal debt from college that should be easy to pay off.
I work as a janitor at the high school I graduated from lol but it works out good as all my classes are online so I can live at home and work and save money. My new fiance whom I proposed to in the plane and wrote marry me? in a field (so romantic I know
) works as registered nurse and is fully supportive of me doing this and makes enough to support us both. My flight instructor is a first officer for American and should have some connections for me I hope. So if you were in my situation, what would you do? I feel like I am in a good position, just hard work and a lot of flying ahead.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
(Railroad is another option which I have also been trying to get on to. My friend, same age as me, just finished engineer training and he showed me his two week pay stub of almost 4600 dollars. Kind of hard to say no to that amount of pay but then end up doing something I'm not too interested in.)
You quit your job, pay the money, get your tickets, spend the time bashing the pattern as an instructor in a Cessna, get that all important F.O. job at a regional, commute to reserve and sit in a crash pad in Newark, struggle by for a year on poverty wages, build some time in the right seat, then finally you get that lucrative upgrade, start paying off some of your debt, start putting some away for retirement, you are finally beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel, then BOOM! Your airline suddenly took a dump and you're out on the street.
What are your options now? Start at the bottom of a regional all over again. Go through all that hassle and stress of commuting and trying to pay the mortgage and keep your marriage alive on 20k a year, all over again?
This is my story anyway. In fact I got another job flying part 135 after my first airline closed its doors and guess what? BANKRUPT! On the street again.
Unfortunately my story is not unique and most pilots get furloughed / laid off at least once in their careers. I'm actively looking to get out and will apply for the local sheriffs office when their application window opens next year.
if all you think about all day is flying a jet and aviation is your true passion, I say go for it. If you are looking for a stable career and value your time at home, I say stay away. Stick to the $200 hamburger flights on the weekend.
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