BoFlyer25

I've seen a few of these threads around here but some are dated and don't exactly have a 1 size fits all feel especially with some of my questions. I am currently a 34 Y/O that works in a family business. We do fairly well but not being the sole owner I'm not killing it by any means and we are within 3-4 years of really being able to make a good profit selling said business (maybe sooner). I have always wanted to fly but thought it a dream due to a few things I will mention below but in May of last year I got my medical and PPL and currently sit as a 350TT CSEL pilot. I would love to, sooner than later, transition to flying for the airlines. My questions are as follows:

-Due to my time I feel like 24-36months is a reasonable amount of time to accumulate the additional time needed. My concern is as I continue to run my families business I won't have much time to get a CFI/II and that most of my time will be flying around for my own business as well as personal. Do airlines look down on this? Should I be looking for a gig flying a few days a week at a certain amount of hours as an FO? I want my resume and my experience to be the best it can be by the time I get to 1500hrs. Currently I am working on an ME followed by the CME so that maybe I can fly some SIC time with a few friends that work part 91/135 once I can qualify hours wise on their insurance.

-I have amblyopia in my left eye. It wasn't enough to stop me from getting a 3rd Class Medical and I currently have no vision restrictions on my medical but I know for an absolute fact I cannot see 20/20 in that eye with corrected vision. My family friend who is a 757 pilot seems to thing that I should have no issue getting a SODA for this especially due to my 3rd class situation but I was wondering if anyone had FIRST HAND accounts of how this went down or has someone they worked with that is in this situation.

-In 2010 I got a DUI. No tickets since. Medical was fully cleared by FAA. Based on what I have read in other threads I need to apply for Canada's Rehabilitation for those unable to enter the country. I don't see this being an issue other than that mega huge mistake I have been a model citizen which should be shown through my record since 2010 being clean as a whistle. That being said, I know there are many regionals who will hire people who have had DUI's but I've also heard that trying to make a career past regionals can prove difficult. I can survive the 5+ year grind to get back to a decent salary and I don't have to fly for a legacy but I would like to be able to move into a position at a decent carrier or cargo company at some point.

- Never failed a checkride and do not plan to.

- I understand this is a monumental undertaking and I want people to understand that I am serious and committed to the cause. I know some will say with a family you're crazy to leave what you are doing but my passion is to do this and frankly my wife is my biggest fan. She understands the sacrifice as once again one of our family friends/her friend is the wife of a pilot. Within 24 months I will have us in the financial position to undertake a regional's pay and make up for where it doesn't from other funds.


My biggest concern is with the two things above that I may have a harder time than others moving past the regional level. I am also unsure of the best path for me to get hours between now and then based on what the airlines are looking for. For now my strategy has been to continue to pick up a few ratings and fly as much as I can with my own aircraft as well as another more affordable aircraft to fly that I have access too. Put up as many "actual" (instrument) hours as I can as I seem to be lacking a bit there outside simulated and do my best to be a model citizen. Also to note: The business will be sold regardless it just depends on what I plan to do next that hinges on these questions. My wife and I plan to relocate our family regardless it just depends on the when/where/why, I say this to those who may suggest I stay doing what I do now...

Any help or advice would be great!

rickair7777

Doesn't matter what the majors think, because you need to get some regional time first (or alternatively 91/135 tubojet).

Historically regionals (and 91/135) would prefer CFI time or some other professional piston time (traffic watch, etc) but nobody can be picky right now. PPL time will be just fine for the indefinite future. However... the interviews (and written tests at some regionals) will cover some things that a CFI would have down cold due to regular use. You'll need to make sure you get the gouge and study thoroughly when the time comes.

That would be good experience, I'd do it if it's convenient. But ONLY if the operation in question is safe and in full regulatory compliance... a few hours of slowtation SIC will not help your career nearly as much as a violation will hurt it.

Yes you can get a SODA, the flight test is easy. The condition will need to be stable, otherwise it's more compliacted. Might want to pay AMAS or another consulting company to help with that, although if you have a good 1C AME you can start there.

In the current climate a *single* DUI with an otherwise clean record will not be much of an issue, even for legacies. It helps that you were pretty young when it happened. You'll definitely need professional interview prep for the majors. For regionals, tell them succinctly what happened, take full responsibility, tell them what you learned and then shut the hell up (and interview is NOT confessional, do not drag the discussion out in hopes of absolution).

The peak retirements are occurring now through about 2027. I'd get on with it asap if you can.

Won't be a problem due to the retirements. Don't wait for the retirements to taper off later this decade. The medical thing will not be a problem as long as it's stable and you have a SODA, airlines no longer hold applicants to higher standards than the FAA. Most just want see your 1C, a few will do their own exam to verify your eligibility for the 1C.

Fat Old Tired

BoFlyer,

As as someone who had a similar background to you coming in the industry (a bit younger when I did it), are you sure you want to go down the airline pilot path? Why not just continue working in the family business and growing there until you either can take on a larger and more profitable role? While you do this and even if you end up selling it, you can enjoy the flying and being a CFI. Or you can use your CFI and network into a SIC role for a Part 91 operation and fly for fun when they need you on a trip. There are many paths in aviation, and being an airline pilot is not necessary to feel like you've "made it" when it comes to flying.

The road to being an airline pilot is long and grueling and I can assure you that you won't be "killing it" for many years, if ever. What am I trying to say is that thing long and hard before giving up what you currently have while just flying for fun. I did make it to a legacy and a youngish age, but I have those moments often thinking "what if".

Best of luck in whatever you decide

BoFlyer25

Thanks for the information Rickair7777. The starting sooner than later is the big hurdle for me as I cannot just walk away from what I am doing due to my status in the company. One of those double edged swords where I could but then my end game wouldn't be able to sustain the tougher years ahead.

A couple of more comments/questions:

-If I do decide to go get a CFI/II are accelerated courses any good? I am not sure if it would look better vs getting some random part time gig somewhere and while I do have some networking ongoing I want things to look as good as possible especially if Legacy's are a possibility I'd like to push for a better regional carrier or cargo carrier. I absolutely do not want to put myself in a position for any type of violation. If I do get a CFI/II I would most likely only be able to use it in a part time situation early mornings/nights/weekends and maybe at some point when/if I am ever slow break off and head to the airport to do some training for someone. I do love the idea of it and have been doing a lot of safety piloting for a friend trying to get his instrument rating. I find myself trying to instill the good habits my CFI put in me..... I guess some professional work in the field is better than none?

-I started with a paper log book. I've seen a few people mention switching over to digital. I am about 5 pages from finishing said logbook so it seems the time to switch if it is critical to moving forward.

-As far as the SODA/my eye condition I believe it is fairly stable at where it is. They caught it late (maybe Kindergarten) and I was patched for years until they said it was pretty much as good as it was going to get. My question is though: What does the stability of the bad eye have to do with ease of getting said SODA? I was under the impression from some of the other posts I have read here/reddit/abroad that once you are approved for the SODA they will never test that eye again. Am I correct in this? I'm local to the Atlanta area and have a pretty good AME right near KATL that I have been using who should be fairly well versed in the 1C medicals as I believe he does many for Delta. I will give him a call...

-I assume when you speak about peak retirements in 2027 I need to probably be interviewing no later than say 2025 for a regional?

rickair7777

Accelerated courses work fine, and there's benefit to doing it with a group as opposed to one-on-one. It's really more about the school and instructor quality, need to do your homework before committing to any program.

Some is better than none, but again, I think you could get hired just fine at any regional with PPL time. Might be worth mentioning at an interview that you wanted to work as a CFI but had other obligations. Just having a CFI rating is helpful, even if you don't actually teach.

Probably smart to switch early, otherwise you'll just have more data entry to do later. Keep the paper book for signature, endorsements. Regionals may want to see your GA training history in ink (majors probably won't bother).

My understanding... the SODA will be for a specified vision defect, ie 20/20 L eye, 20/30 R eye. Once you have the SODA, you'll have to pass the eye test for each medical renewal, but only to the lesser standard for which the SODA was issued, ie 20/30 for the right eye in my example. If your vision is not stable, you might be able to get a special issuance which expires sooner than a normal medical to ensure that they check your status more frequently. If you're serious about this, just get professional advice, either from a 1C AME with a good reputation or from a consultant like AMAS.

Since this was a childhood issue, I'm sure it's perfectly stable and you can get a SODA no problem.

Two issues with retirements...

1. It's easier to get a job while the retirements are moving. Less significant for regionals, but majors will get very picky, very quickly during "normal" times (based on history). Back in the day it was common that out of ten perfectly viable regional CA's with similar records only 3-6 would make it to majors. Right now it's probably 100% with a clean record. Actually... for second tier (AS, B6, NK, F9, etc) the DUI will probably HELP you because they know you're slightly less likely to get called by the top tier. I think you will get called by top tier regardless. So Ideally you'd like to get hired at a major before things slow down too much.

Also, about regionals... assume that a "career" at a regional is not going to be a reliable plan B. They'll either shrink, liquidate, or the QOL will be so bad that you won't want any part of it. Don't get comfortable or delay career progression while at a regional, not even for a minute. Many of my generation can attest to that.

2. Seniority progression. If you get hired later in the wave you'll miss out on rapid seniority progression. That's critical... you schedule, vacation, pay, type of aircraft, upgrade all depend on seniority. These are unprecedented times, don't waste the exceptionally rare opportunity to grab a LOT of seniority very quickly. If you get to mid-seniority narrowbody CA in five years, that's a very comfortable place to hang out for decades to come after things slow down.

Regional seniority doesn't matter because that does not count for majors.

BoFlyer25

Perfect. Looking at Thrust Aviation for there CFI/II course as they are about 4hrs away. Time is money for me and I agree that doing the course with peers will be most helpful.


Agreed. I would like to have my CFI/II anyway as I would like to teach my kids as they grow up to fly if they stay interested as well as enjoy those I do have time to teach.

True. Looking at Logten though I think for now the Basic might work out fine. When I get to the show Pro looks solid.

True. I'll give the AME a call and see there thoughts. If I get any waves I'll contact AMAS.

Ah yes. This makes total sense and gives me a nice touch of pressure to get this done sooner than later. I assumed based on your first responses that this was probably the hard truth of the matter but I have my resolve. I am in complete agreeance on finding comfort in some mid seniority in a narrowbody. I know many dream of flying 747/777/A380's but I just wish to enjoy the journey and not rush it (at a comfortable level of course).


Once again thanks for all of your insight. Going to begin working on getting this Canadian Rehab thing done as well as make a call to my AME. Cheers.

BoFlyer25

Quick update and a few more questions:

1. Received my 1st Class Medical so I am set here.

2. Currently sitting at about 400hrs TT and have a check ride/25hrs scheduled next month in a multi to add my CMEL to the list.

3. FOI written passed and should finish my FIA written and upset training this month. Basically planning to work through the rest of my CFI flight training after the CMEL and begin to build my lesson "book" between now and then.

4. I have access now to an RV-12 to build time in as well as my A36.


Updated Questions for those who may be able to help:

1. Most importantly right now and as mentioned above I got a DUI in June of 2010. FAA has cleared me as no violations of any sort have happened since BUT I am not 100% sure if I still have to apply for rehabilitation to Canada. I am fairly sure I do as the research I've done leads me to believe this. That being said: Anyone here have an attorney that they used to file the paperwork? I started to do it myself and then had this sinking feeling that if I did something incorrect it could kick it back and waste valuable time (I've heard the process could take 6-12 MONTHS to get done). I just want to get it done correctly and I don't mind spending the money to have someone do so.

2. I plan to split my next 1100hrs up over the A36 and RV-12 most of the time spent in the RV-12 as she only burns 3.1gph. That being said its just a VFR only aircraft. I can log plenty of night and cross county but no IMC. I plan to still fly the Bo quite a bit but thinking I should be intentional with my flying of it. Reading through some of the Part 135 type ads people are looking for 75hours of actual time. Is this fairly common? I was under the understanding that it just had to be 25 actual 50 simulated based on 61.159. Regardless I should still be able to get it just curious.

3. Still planning on finishing the CFI but most likely won't have a ton of time to execute it right now unless a student could share my post work or pre work flying schedule. That being said if I am flying 2-3 hours an afternoon/morning to get my TT up to around 80hrs a month for the next year will this be any issue in my application process or do the airlines really care how I got my time?

4. Seems to be a lot of positive changes happening at the regional level with pay increases for some etc. Thinking back on the DUI situation I am just wondering if I would be better served going to a regional with a flow through program or if its really going to effect my chances at the major level when I get there if I prove my worth and ethics at the regional level? Thoughts from the masses?

rickair7777

FAA is part of USG and has absolutely nothkg to do with Canada which is a foriegn country. As far as I know you still need to apply for "rehab". Check regional airline websites, they might mention that and might have how-to info. Otherwise reach out to your local CA consulate or lawyer in CA.

Per 135, you need 75 hours of which 50 must be in flight. So hood time should be good for 135. But a specific company might have different OPSPEC or insurance requirements.

Right now the regional can't afford to really care. Majors mostly care about about your previous turbine experience, not GA.

Flow will probably delay your career progression if you wait for it. It might not be a bad backup plan, but typically if you participate in flow you cannot apply off the street. So you could work for an AA regional with flow, apply to other majors OTS and still have AA flow as a fallback if nobody else hires you (unlikely). I would not recommend intentionally waiting for anyone's flow if you can get to an equivalent career-destination job OTS.

BoFlyer25

As usual Rick your comments are appreciated and really helping me game plan. Seems to me I need to call the Canadian Consulate here tomorrow to deal with that issue and hopefully get that ball rolling.

If the regionals don't care how I get my hours I may just fly the time on my own like a second job after work. I can always be flexible with myself. Should allow me if I push to be around 1500hrs this time next year. I'll just try to make sure to run as many actual instrument hours as I can.

Sounds to me like based on what you are saying just pick the best regional fit for me based on pay/base etc not to worry too much about flow programs. This was very helpful. I appreciate your time!

NatGeo

Fat Old Tired gave you pretty good advice. I would try and listen to the people who are telling you what you do not want to hear.

After scanning the thread, it looks like you have the eye problem, the DUI, and I don't know what age you are but it sounds like 35,

This is a young man's game. Working for a regional is really going to suck. I know you think your current job sucks. Imagine being away from your family for the next 5-10 years and having a horrible schedule for less pay.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but I had a brief stint in recruiting in the oilfields. Recruiters are dicks. If the recruiters at the majors can figure out your combo of the DUI, eye disability, and age they are going to avoid hiring you. Your only quality of life is at a major or legacy. You can only do that until you are 60.

I think you need to do a better job of evaluating the opportunity cost of switching careers. Pilot jobs are incredibly susceptible to economic downturns, etc, etc. Don't think the industry wont turn on its head again in another 5 years.

Airline recruiters prefer CFIs quite a bit. Shows you will not be scared when someone else is flying and you can work well with other people.

I would keep flying fun and just do it on the side like Fat Old Tired said. You can still make scratch on the side from flying like he said.

A lot of guys would kill for an opportunity where their personal business allowed them to have their own airplane for business flying and get to do part 91 flying.