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Chances at the majors with checkride failures

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Chances at the majors with checkride failures

Old 10-11-2013, 07:52 AM
  #1  
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Default Chances at the majors with checkride failures

I've been at my current regional airline for six plus years. Last year I had a checkride bust on a PC. Recently I had the opportunity to upgrade, got through all of training, and busted on the Fed ride after IOE. Now I will be facing a training review board and more bad paperwork being put into my permanent record.

I've been considering leaving the career for some time now, and this may be the final nail in the coffin. In your collective knowledge, do you all think I would ever stand a chance for a major job after two 121 checkride failures? Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:37 AM
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There are no absolutes, but right now it seems that you need checkairman experience and probably a clean 121 record to get called. That may change, but I think part 61 training busts are more tolerated than 121 busts so I suspect you'll be at a disadvantage until majors start having trouble filling classes (not sure that's even going to happen). Also a recent bust is going to be a much bigger issue than something which occurred years ago, early in your career, and was a valuable learning experience which you were able to build on.

Of course if you have very good internal connections at some major then anything's possible, but I'm assuming you don't.

I can tell you what I'd do in your position (which is not the same as me suggesting that you do it)...I'd make the assumption that I'm stuck, and then evaluate life and compensation at my current employer and force myself to make a decision as to whether that's going to be "good enough" for the rest of my career. Taking into account wages equal to a fast-food shift manager, uncertainty in the regional industry, and flexible schedules (with more time off than that Arby's shift manager).

If it's "good enough" than I'd settle in, but still keep applying anywhere and everywhere. If something bites, great. If not, well I already made my peace with regional lifer status.

If it's not "good enough", then I'd go get another job (I have skills, relevant experience, and connections so I could get something pretty quick, and get decent pay too).

What I wouldn't do is stay at a regional if that's not "good enough", and hope for that longshot interview...too much hanging out there for my taste.

I would make my own decision...I would not let the decision make me.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:59 AM
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I agree with the first paragraph of what Rickair said. Your career is not over but you will have to work harder to obtain a job at the major level. You will also have to pass subsequent check rides to show that you have learned from your mistakes.

You probably feel that you are at a low point in your career but I do not want you to give up yet. The major airlines have started hiring that will not stop for the next 20 years. You may not be initially selected for an interview but over time you will be given a chance. If you want to talk about it privately send me a PM.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:49 AM
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If I were in your shoes, I think I'd try to understand the causes of the failures before considering anything else. Brutal soul-searching could reveal the answer. If the cause was lack of knowledge or skills, then those can be learned. If it's something more fundamental, like aptitude, then a different field might be the right choice. Aptitudes should not be viewed as positive or negative: they're neutral. They neither add nor take away anything from someone's worth; their value is set by circumstances alone. People who excel in one discipline might have difficulty with tasks in another. A gifted composer, for example, might excel at creating soothing music, but couldn't figure out his gas mileage if his life depended on it. So take an honest look at things you do better than most people and make that your career choice. But be honest with yourself. If flying is what you do better than most people, then funnel your energies into that and don't give up. If not, then look for a different career. My 2c.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 9780991975808 View Post
If I were in your shoes, I think I'd try to understand the causes of the failures before considering anything else. Brutal soul-searching could reveal the answer. If the cause was lack of knowledge or skills, then those can be learned. If it's something more fundamental, like aptitude, then a different field might be the right choice. Aptitudes should not be viewed as positive or negative: they're neutral. They neither add nor take away anything from someone's worth; their value is set by circumstances alone. People who excel in one discipline might have difficulty with tasks in another. A gifted composer, for example, might excel at creating soothing music, but couldn't figure out his gas mileage if his life depended on it. So take an honest look at things you do better than most people and make that your career choice. But be honest with yourself. If flying is what you do better than most people, then funnel your energies into that and don't give up. If not, then look for a different career. My 2c.
Excellent advice, but it flies in the face of the 'you can be anything you want' mentality and the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality of current society. EVERYONE has the aptitude to fly at whatever level of the profession they chose. It is their right!
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:44 PM
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First, I'm sorry to hear about your 121 failures; I've busted a 121 PC myself and it sucks - it's the only failure I've had in my entire career. You probably have quite a few more hours than I do, and honestly, I'd look into Part 91 as an alternative to the majors unless you have some outstanding internal references somewhere. The pay and QOL are stellar with the right company and the checkrides are 100% less stressful (at least in my opinion).

The funny thing is that even with only ONE bust and two initials, three recurrent rides and an ATP / Jet type successfully completed after the fact, I have yet to get a call from a single 121 carrier; including regionals.

I'm pretty suprised by that, but it is what it is. I wish you the very best, and again, I'd look into corporate.

JJ
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:28 PM
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Thanks for the replies all. I am still going to do my absolute best to get through the retraining and recheck. I've put almost 15 years, 7K plus flight hours, and many thousands of dollars into this profession now, so I at least need to give it my best shot and try to get those four stripes (and pay off all of those flight school loans a bit quicker.)

That being said, being 32, I'm still at the point where I can make a big change if need be. Flying has always been, and continues to be, a struggle for me. I think this last failure has made up my mind as far as progressing to a major, and I don't plan on being a regional lifer. I will look into corporate, but if nothing materializes there I think my days flying airplanes are going to end soon.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sargeanb View Post
Thanks for the replies all. I am still going to do my absolute best to get through the retraining and recheck. I've put almost 15 years, 7K plus flight hours, and many thousands of dollars into this profession now, so I at least need to give it my best shot and try to get those four stripes (and pay off all of those flight school loans a bit quicker.)

That being said, being 32, I'm still at the point where I can make a big change if need be. Flying has always been, and continues to be, a struggle for me. I think this last failure has made up my mind as far as progressing to a major, and I don't plan on being a regional lifer. I will look into corporate, but if nothing materializes there I think my days flying airplanes are going to end soon.
Although that's impressive, I'd caution anyone from ever thinking like that. It's the same reason we decide to go along with ridiculous government procurements after they've racked up a cost well past anything reasonable, because we figure that "well, we'll lose too much now if we stop", but in reality, stopping is the right thing to do. None of this means you should stop flying though, you could still do it on the side or do it in some commercial/paid function, but you also have to not limit yourself to the "major airline pilot track". To be honest, the whole civilian pilot thing is somewhat new and untested, for years the main feed for major airlines has been military pilots. While this is not the case 100% of the time, it makes up the majority of the cases, especially the further back you go in time. Think about all the other possibilities that aviation offers: management, safety, dispatch/control, maintenance, insurance, regulation, training, engineering, testing, and so on. Many people will instantly try to associate all these things with major airlines too, but people have to expand their horizons and think about how far this industry really spans. There are lots of things one can do and say "in" aviation, to pursue the love of it. In many of these cases, you can fly airplanes, or at least have enough money to do so for recreation. Good luck.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:20 PM
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Rick you are usually spot on, but you do need to drop the "need to be a check airman to get called" slogan. It's really not the case at all from my experience and all the friends I know getting hired at United and US Airways right now. Other than that you are very much on point.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sargeanb View Post
Thanks for the replies all. I am still going to do my absolute best to get through the retraining and recheck. I've put almost 15 years, 7K plus flight hours, and many thousands of dollars into this profession now, so I at least need to give it my best shot and try to get those four stripes (and pay off all of those flight school loans a bit quicker.)

That being said, being 32, I'm still at the point where I can make a big change if need be. Flying has always been, and continues to be, a struggle for me. I think this last failure has made up my mind as far as progressing to a major, and I don't plan on being a regional lifer. I will look into corporate, but if nothing materializes there I think my days flying airplanes are going to end soon.
If by struggle you mean by ability, I would say it's time to move on to greener pastures. We all have different aptitudes.

That being said, quite a few people have one down on their record. Learn from where you went wrong and shore up those areas. Take very personal reponsibility for what happened. Even if the instructor was a tool, a good pilot can out do their idiocy if they are playing somewhat within bounds. Learn and rise above. Good things come to those who do.
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