Training Termination Question
 

I failed my King Air training for a part 91 gig. First time in a turbine, just didn't go as well as it should have. Nothing out of my scope of capabilities, I just felt a lot of pressure from the instructor and I kind of snowballed from there. I've learned a lot from the experience.

I recently got ATP 121 mins. If I decide to send out airline apps, do I include this 91 job in my employment? I technically did not work or fly there, I got paid for initial training and then parted with the company after a week.

Technically you DID work there. You received a pay check for failing required training. Always best to just be honest and open about everything. Use this opportunity to learn from it and apply what you learned to the next gig. Training on a jet is going to be a tad bit harder than a King Air, but anybody can do it. Good Luck in the future!!!

You'll receive a W2 for your time there, that means you worked there.

Regionals will hire you if you admit that you had issues and shared what you have learned from it. Withholding it would be a larger problem waiting to bite you in the ....

^^^^^^^^^What he said. Full disclosure is your best bet. Take ownership of it, acknowledge what happened and that you not only learned from it, but that you have learned how to learn a new airplane. There are thousands of pilots with more than one checkride bust that have gotten the job they wanted. The further in your past it becomes, the less of an issue it is.

What WILL hurt you is trying to hide it, then getting terminated for lying. Once that happens, your career is over....

Be careful how the question on the exam is worded.
Remember part 91 won't be on PRIA.

NOT TRUE!

NOTHING is "on PRIA" except FAA records. Everything else requires that a form be sent to previous employers, and said employers must reply with the legally required info.

You are REQUIRED by LAW to do PRIA forms for previous aviation employers of any sort, including part 91. It would probably be a violation of federal law (specifically the Pilot Records Improvement Act) to fail to report a previous aviation employer when applying to a part 121 carrier. Unless there is a look-back window which has expired, you'd better talk to a lawyer before you play games with the feds. Since you got paid, I suspect that counts as employment.

Part 91 employers are not required by law to keep training records, but it's not worth it taking a chance. Just use it as a TMAAT question during interviews. Now is the best time if you are wanting on with a regional, they are begging for pilots. This won't phase them!!!

^^^^^^^
This is totally UNTRUE
I can speak with absolute authority on this as I used to deal with this stuff for a living.

If it was P91 and not P91K your employer is not required to respond to a PRIA request. Therefore you basically get a free pass here if you want it. A FOIA request will show any FAA check ride failures and this was not for a type rating so you are good. A PRIA request will show any CERTIFICATED employer records which must fit into a narrow scope of what is reportable.That's all I'm going to say other than PRIA is one of the most mis-understood things in aviation (for good reason) .

edit : yes there are "moral" issues here that's all up to you...but I wouldn't sweat it a bit either way

Me too.

This is incorrect. P91 is required to respond. They are not legally required to maintain any records, but if they DO happen to keep records which fall into the scope of PRIA, those must be reported.

Most businesses tend to keep employee records for liability reasons if nothing else.

Correct, PRIA alone will not show pink slips but a FOIA request will. Most majors probably do a FOIA request as a matter of course these days.

See below.


Yes, and I've seen 91 employers photocopy everything in their file and mail it back. That 23 year-old chick who answers the phone and mail at the flight school doesn't know the regs very well at all.

Bottom line...

You have to report the previous aviation employer, even if he didn't keep records. You have no idea what will turn up in the mail...I wouldn't bet my career on some fly-by-night outfit's precise application of PRIA :rolleyes:

Ethics aside, while the risk may be low the consequences of "forgetting" to report a training failure will likely be career-defining if you get caught. And there is no statute of limitations...it will be hanging over your head forever. Just depends on how well you can sleep at night.


Of course after you get fired from the airlines when they find out, you could always sue the part 91 guy who screwed up the PRIA details.

In your next interview own the mistake and use it as a TMAAT. You could turn this bad experience into an interview positive if they can see that you learned from it