ILS vs. ILS or LOC approaches....???
05-19-2007, 02:19 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 848
hmmm
Originally Posted by Jack Steel
I have learned from Day 1 of military instrument training, the 6 T's.
T - Time
T - Turn
T - Throttles/Torque
T - Twist
T - Track
T - Talk
It established the habit pattern early and can be consistent in any platform.
T - Time
T - Turn
T - Throttles/Torque
T - Twist
T - Track
T - Talk
It established the habit pattern early and can be consistent in any platform.
Turn
Time
Twist
Throttle
Talk
Never thought about track. Interesting.
05-21-2007, 02:34 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 767/757 Capt.
Posts: 129
I would like to suggest that making a missed approach to us is considered a quasi emergency. This may sound funny but we don’t do them that often in the real world and they are time consuming and expensive. Having said that I would also imply that you should be thoroughly briefed before an approach. If you expect that the weather will allow you to see the runway with the ILS and not just MDA then it may not be a bad idea to go-around. But it would be nice to know that all you need is get to the LOC MDA and one step down would have gotten you there. And if you think that making a missed approach is no big deal then explain that to the 182 folks that have connections in DEN. You should consider it a big deal when you are not prepared for a few contingencies. Next , WE will talk about CAT 2/3 approaches.
05-21-2007, 09:47 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Dream within a dream
Posts: 1,306
I find it highly amusing to see a bunch of pilots arguing over SOP.
On the topic of CAT-2/3 approaches, could you even execute a 3 without the GS (i.e., would autoland work?) Just my noobish question.
On the topic of CAT-2/3 approaches, could you even execute a 3 without the GS (i.e., would autoland work?) Just my noobish question.
05-21-2007, 03:45 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 767/757 Capt.
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by Planespotta
I find it highly amusing to see a bunch of pilots arguing over SOP.
On the topic of CAT-2/3 approaches, could you even execute a 3 without the GS (i.e., would autoland work?) Just my noobish question.
On the topic of CAT-2/3 approaches, could you even execute a 3 without the GS (i.e., would autoland work?) Just my noobish question.
05-21-2007, 05:37 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Dream within a dream
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by EDC757
No, it needs the GS for guidance to start down but can continue to the runway from 100' agl if GS is lost using the radar altimeter.
How many ppl. here have ever flown a CAT-IIIC approach? I have (on FSX
until sometime in the near future.)
05-21-2007, 06:01 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by Planespotta
Thanks, that's what I thought, I guess it works much like the APP in that aspect. Makes sense.
How many ppl. here have ever flown a CAT-IIIC approach? I have (on FSX until sometime in the near future.)
How many ppl. here have ever flown a CAT-IIIC approach? I have (on FSX
until sometime in the near future.)
05-26-2007, 06:53 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: The IPA EB speaks for me
Posts: 519
Flying Localizer procedures when cleared an ILS will often surprise ATC as it may set off their low altitude alert system, distracting them and having extra radio calls and losing cool points. If you choose to tell ATC you are practicing the LOC then they have a heads up that you may dive to the MDA, setting off the Low Alt. alert, then drive in... Actual mileage may vary, along w/ what your local ATC prefers. The AIM/PCG doesn't cover this training scenario, and you'll have to disregard that operating GS as you duck under and get the "GS" GPWS warnings. Pretty normal in the USAF heavy training pattern.
05-26-2007, 11:10 AM
#38
Gets all holidays off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Retired UPS 767 Captain, SDF Z
Posts: 431
dive and drive?
Originally Posted by MoosePileit
Flying Localizer procedures when cleared an ILS will often surprise ATC as it may set off their low altitude alert system, distracting them and having extra radio calls and losing cool points. If you choose to tell ATC you are practicing the LOC then they have a heads up that you may dive to the MDA, setting off the Low Alt. alert, then drive in... Actual mileage may vary, along w/ what your local ATC prefers. The AIM/PCG doesn't cover this training scenario, and you'll have to disregard that operating GS as you duck under and get the "GS" GPWS warnings. Pretty normal in the USAF heavy training pattern.
05-26-2007, 07:00 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: The IPA EB speaks for me
Posts: 519
Youbetcha, and you just preached to the choir.. Uncle Sugar and your tax $ is Just getting the jet to where you can pick and fly an approach and use WAAS/LPVs. Yes, good pilots make them 300 '/nm or so stabilized descents obstacle/MDA permitting, use VDPs, etc- but we don't fly either self contained or GPS/LPV just quite yet. I've been big on not just diving and driving myself...
05-06-2013, 09:33 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Texandrvr
Now if the glideslope is OTS then the controller may be doing you a favor by reminding you that you have to fly the localizer procedures. But by the book, even if the gs is OTS he doesn't have to say anything but "Cleared ILS 17" Which I've seen. Although I do belive they are supposed to remind you of the outage.
An aircraft conducting an ILS or LDA approach when the glideslope is reported out of service must be advised at the time an approach clearance is issued unless the title of the published approach procedure allows (for example, ILS Rwy 05 or LOC Rwy 05).
"Cleared I-L-S Runway Three-Six Approach, glideslope unusable."
I'm not sure what has changed from the older version of the order, but this is marked as new in
N JO 7110.615.
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 05-06-2013 at 09:44 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
