Embracing the Suck?
 

Hey all, I'm about to ask some questions that I'm sure are asked all the time. Every single one of you has had this debate in the cockpit at one point or another. But I think I'm going to ask it in a different way.

How long should I embrace the suck at a regional? Or in other words, at what point do I accept that a legacy carrier is out of the question? How long do I continue to pass up corporate / charter jobs that pay 3x what I make now; holding out for the dream job at the big daddy D? I literally get a corporate job offer like 2x a month. I flew corporate for a while and have quite a few connections in that world.

I'm currently flying for a regional. I'm based close to home, it's one of the better regionals *I know this is something of an oxymoron*, and I have a pretty good schedule with weekends and roughly 14 days off. I fly with cool people, good aircraft, and generally don't DREAD going to work every week.

I am NOT unhappy here. I know I could have it much worse and know guys that do. But I fly with Captains who have 5000 hours and 2000 hours PIC, but might have a bust on a recurrent ride, or perhaps they don't have a masters degree, or an aviation degree. *I fly with guys that for all intents and purposes SHOULD be moving onward and upward but aren't, and it's discouraging to me.* These aren't weirdos either. Not your guys with Asperger's or anti-social or non-hackers. These are personable, pleasant, professional pilots that are trying to get to their dream legacy job for more than 2 years and just can't seem to even get an interview.

I have a 3.2 GPA in a non-aviation degree program. I don't have any check-ride busts, yet (heaven forbid a blow it on a recurrent ride). I don't have a dad, mom, uncle, cousin, brother, or even any friends at the legacy carriers. I have a clean record so far.

So again, at what point does a person like me look at themselves and say...Delta is probably out of your league? At what point do I say...Jetblue or Spirit or Frontier or Allegiant is out of your league?

First of all, keeping in mind that attitude determines altitude, your approach that you're doing your time in hell until you are lifted up and exalted among the stars may not be the most productive one. "Embrace the suck" speaks more to attitude and it's not a positive one. If you're not happy where you are, do something else. If you don't feel it's economically beneficial, or if it's unsafe, or if it's unsavory, go do something else. Life is too short to be that unhappy.

How long do you stay there? Until you either decide to do something else, or until you get hired elsewhere.

There's nothing wrong with flying for a regional, except perhaps the pay, and in some cases the schedule. Some, as you've noted, are better than others. I've known pilots who spent most of their careers at regional carriers. They had their reason. The mentality that someone who doesn't go to a major airline has something wrong with them is a poor attitude, and smacks of ignorance. Not everyone wants to fly for a major. I know people who have done fire, law enforcement, crop dusting, corporate, instructing, and other things for their entire career, and who have been quite happy with their work and their life. Rather than worrying about what the captain who's been there five or six years is doing, worry about yourself, and let them lead their own life.

You're making the progress along the lines you've chosen. You're working on a career, working on a degree, and not at a point where you need to focus on how much time you've spend on the line yet. If you're still flying as an FO, you need to focus on upgrading first, getting PIC experience, and while doing that, on making applications elsewhere if it's what you wish to do.

[QUOTE=JohnBurke;2181581]The mentality that someone who doesn't go to a major airline has something wrong with them is a poor attitude, and smacks of ignorance.


Definitely not trying to insinuate that major airline=success and anything else=failure. I know several pilots for OO that have no intention of ever moving on, and are quite happy with their QOL.

What is discouraging is when I see someone who WANTS to make that move, is marketable, personable, and otherwise seems like they've got it made; and has been stymied for quite some time.

Wanting something isn't enough to make it happen. The major airlines don't hire everyone. There aren't enough open positions, and so many people want in that the airlines can pick and choose, and have always been able to do so. There are tens of thousands of pilots who meet the technical qualifications at any given time, and a hand full of openings.

Recognizing that there are no guarantees, and understanding that the major airlines are not the only game in town, it may be wise to broaden one's considerations for employment.

Honor your goals. Shoot for them, pursue them, chase them down. It's foolish to jump with just one parachute. Always have a reserve.

This is horrible advice. Figure out your career earning potential with a move to an LCC or good corporate job vs staying put, and tack getting hired at a major a few years from now onto the end of that. Major or no, your retirement/savings would probably look better in 30 years if you move on. The only situation in which it wouldn't is if you stay put and get picked up in the next two-ish years, but there's no guarantee in that. Nobody I know is getting hired with 5,000 TT and 2,000 TPIC; they're getting hired with LESS. Are you volunteering, networking, going to career fairs, polishing your app and being an all around interesting person? Are these 5000-hour captains you fly with who don't get called doing that? It doesn't matter if you're a good pilot, they want to see all that other stuff. Sad but true. Your decision should be a based on QOL and income, and who says you can't go to Delta if they call you on your first day of IOE at JetBlue?

Lots of variables to consider - age, how good is your resume now, felony arrest record, have you failed every pysch exam you've taken, etc, etc.

Thx for all the input thus far.

And yea lol, perfect criminal record; nary even a parking ticket. Never taken a pysch exam (for flying), taken some for some other LEO-type stuff way back when.

Yea, good volunteerism (until recently-too busy), speak 3 languages, have a life. Yea, haven't been doing career fairs. I know that's a big one.

Most of the guys I'm talking to have all those boxes checked too it seems like.

You need to look at when the majors will be having retirements. It hasn't hit yet... when it does they will be hiring up regional pilots left and right because there are very few military pilots these days. And actually they will need more pilots than currently exist at the regionals. In other words, it's still early yet, but it won't be for long.

Here is the information for DAL --

Mandatory retirements:

2016: 99 (from 1 Sept to EOY)
2017: 308
2018: 403
2019: 468
2020: 553
2021: 767

Projected Retirement Numbers (Feb 2016):

2016: 189
2017: 267
2018: 377
2019: 471
2020: 566
2021: 772
2022: 830
2023: 790
2024: 791
2025: 711
2026: 608
2027: 513
2028: 507
2029: 511
2030: 541
2031: 476
2032: 424
2033: 356
2034: 302
2035: 260
2036: 256
2037: 227
2038: 203
2039: 159
2040: 178

SOURCE: Delta Air Lines | AirlinePilotCentral.com

I've been around for 40 years and every hiring boom leaves guys and a few gals behind for unknowable reasons. I've known loads of AF guys that couldn't/didn't get hired, that's just the way it is. I've known guys with little time get hired in bad hiring climates. It's a giant gamble and anyone who trots out the future retirements gambit is selling snake oil. No one knows the future and retirement lists ain't the future.

GF

"It's a giant gamble and anyone who trots out the future retirements gambit is selling snake oil."

Growth is a gamble. Retirements are guaranteed. The top age might change but no one here will be an airline pilot in 2086.

Stepping back to 2013 and projecting forward 20 years about 75-80% of the current 50,000(?) major airline pilots will be retired.

Peak retirement percentages used to about 2%, tops 3%. We're going to average 4% and the peak years, roughly 2022-2028, will see retirement percentages of 7% at individual airlines.