Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Career Questions
FAA Captain Pt121 Requirements >

FAA Captain Pt121 Requirements

Notices
Career Questions Career advice, interview prep and gouges, job fairs, etc.

FAA Captain Pt121 Requirements

Old 01-07-2017, 07:32 PM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 235
Default

Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
I'm guessing this is what they're referring to- 121.436

(3) If serving as pilot in command in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under §91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under §135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof.

When the FAA says "under this part" they mean operations conducted under 121 as the sentence comes out of part 121. If they wanted to say scheduled air carrier operations to cover foreign airlines they would have phrased it that way. Probably looking to make sure the Captain has a experience working under the FAA system. Things will come up in line ops they never covered in basic indoc.
While I see your point, I just want to add some other info:

ICAO recognized countries (which most of places in the world are) also regulate their airlines by PART 121 with the local differences from ICAO standards published in the difference parts. So it still may be possible, I guess the only way to figure out is to ask FAA for a letter of interpretation.
mike sierra is offline  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:12 PM
  #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 139
Default

Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
I'm guessing this is what they're referring to- 121.436

(3) If serving as pilot in command in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under §91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under §135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof.

When the FAA says "under this part" they mean operations conducted under 121 as the sentence comes out of part 121. If they wanted to say scheduled air carrier operations to cover foreign airlines they would have phrased it that way. Probably looking to make sure the Captain has a experience working under the FAA system. Things will come up in line ops they never covered in basic indoc.

My friend used his PIC under 135.243 toward his 121 upgrade. I was hoping that my SIC in the same operation would help towards my upgrade but our POI said no-go. I'll just have to keep bidding max
WillFlyForSpam is offline  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:02 AM
  #13  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by mike sierra View Post
While I see your point, I just want to add some other info:

ICAO recognized countries (which most of places in the world are) also regulate their airlines by PART 121 with the local differences from ICAO standards published in the difference parts. So it still may be possible, I guess the only way to figure out is to ask FAA for a letter of interpretation.

Sounds reasonable to me, but the reg is pretty clearly written and the FAA cannot really "re-interpret" a black-and-white reg even if they wanted to. Wouldn't hurt to ask, but it might take a while to get an answer.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 01-08-2017, 10:15 AM
  #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,977
Default

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
Actually a Global with the high ZFW option is Part 125. No schedules, no schedule.

Here's the definition from 125 applicability paragraph.

this part prescribes rules governing the operations of U.S.-registered civil airplanes which have a seating configuration of 20 or more passengers or a maximum payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more when common carriage is not involved.

GF
Here's the definition from part 110. Common carriage means holding out to the public, basically offering transportation service to the public, not schedules. You may be thinking of "on-demand" vs. "scheduled".

Noncommon carriage means an aircraft operation for compensation or hire that does not involve a holding out to others.
Common Carriage: A carrier becomes a common carrier when it "holds itself out" to the public, or to a segment of the public. Holding Out: A carrier is holding out when they represent themselves as willing to furnish transportation within the limits of its facilities to any person who wants it.
Scheduled operation means any common carriage passenger-carrying operation for compensation or hire conducted by an air carrier or commercial operator for which the certificate holder or its representative offers in advance the departure location, departure time, and arrival location. It does not include any passenger-carrying operation that is conducted as a public charter operation under part 380 of this chapter.
Since common carriage is not involved, they don't fall under this definition. They can still have scheduled flights, but the FAA doesn't see it as scheduled common carriage operation.

I can find nothing about scheduled vs. on-demand for Part 125. I would assume that is because they are not holding themselves out to the public, so it really doesn't matter if they are or not.

Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 01-08-2017 at 10:31 AM.
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 09-22-2017, 07:26 PM
  #15  
New Hire
 
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 3
Default

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Is there another kind of Part 121? If it's not in the reg, it won't count unfortunately.
Now where 121.436 request to be on N registered aircraft of US 121. The requariment are related to aircraft weight , 121 over 30 pax, 135 over +9 pax excluding any crew. Or 91 operation on turbo jet aircraft multi crew. So if you have +1000 Sic on 121 no matter where you should be ok. Aviation is worldwide regulated the same
la polvora is offline  
Old 09-22-2017, 07:36 PM
  #16  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Admiral
Posts: 726
Default

Originally Posted by la polvora View Post
Now where 121.436 request to be on N registered aircraft of US 121. The requariment are related to aircraft weight , 121 over 30 pax, 135 over +9 pax excluding any crew. Or 91 operation on turbo jet aircraft multi crew. So if you have +1000 Sic on 121 no matter where you should be ok. Aviation is worldwide regulated the same
Only the US has "part 121" regulation. Part 121 is not an ICAO regulation, it's an FAA regulation. So you'd be out of luck if say you're only air carrier experience was with GOL etc.
Flyhayes is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:38 PM
  #17  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 14
Default

Wouldn't a country like Canada, who have a pretty tight bilateral agreement with the US, would their 705 ops (aka 121) and 704 ops (aka 135.243) not be considered equivalent?
shoestrings1229 is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:51 PM
  #18  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by shoestrings1229 View Post
Wouldn't a country like Canada, who have a pretty tight bilateral agreement with the US, would their 705 ops (aka 121) and 704 ops (aka 135.243) not be considered equivalent?
No. There is no language about anything being "considered equivalent".

The language says "121" and must be interpreted literally. The FAA has already affirmed this.

Now I agree that CA is about as close as you can get to US operations, but maybe they didn't want to be in the awkward position of having to accept some people (ie CA, AUS, UK), but not others... that would be politically sensitive. Or maybe they just really wanted the experience to be in US ops.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:08 PM
  #19  
Disinterested Third Party
 
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
Default

Originally Posted by 330busdriver View Post
Many Thanks for clearing that up.

The confusion came over the definition of pt121 and what the FAA are looking for. To my limited knowledge pt121 refers to scheduled air transport ops. Having worked for airlines my entire career outside the US I wasn't sure if this considered for licensing/upgrades etc. I've never heard of a domestic requirement like this before in Europe or Asia before.
I'm not sure how one could be confused about Part 121.

If the operator holds a Part 121 certificate and operates under 14 CFR Part 121, then it's a Part 121 operator.

If the operator does not hold an operating certificate under 14 CFR 121, then it is not a 121 operator.

Where is the confusion? Are you saying that you think foreign operators who don't hold an operating certificate under the United States Code of Federal Regulations, Title 14, Part 121, are somehow 121 operators?

Originally Posted by la polvora View Post
Now where 121.436 request to be on N registered aircraft of US 121. The requariment are related to aircraft weight , 121 over 30 pax, 135 over +9 pax excluding any crew. Or 91 operation on turbo jet aircraft multi crew. So if you have +1000 Sic on 121 no matter where you should be ok. Aviation is worldwide regulated the same
That is entirely incorrect and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by mike sierra View Post
While I see your point, I just want to add some other info:

ICAO recognized countries (which most of places in the world are) also regulate their airlines by PART 121 with the local differences from ICAO standards published in the difference parts. So it still may be possible, I guess the only way to figure out is to ask FAA for a letter of interpretation.
You understand that Part 121 refers to the UNITED STATES CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATION, right? You're attempting to say that other countries regulate under Title 14 of the United States Code of Federal Regulation, Part 121? Neat trick.

Other countries sometimes pattern their regulation after US regulation, but do NOT receive operating certificates from the FAA to operate under 14 CFR 121.

Which foreign carriers are issued FAA operations specifications?

Last edited by JohnBurke; 05-15-2018 at 04:36 PM.
JohnBurke is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:55 PM
  #20  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,665
Default

Originally Posted by shoestrings1229 View Post
Wouldn't a country like Canada, who have a pretty tight bilateral agreement with the US, would their 705 ops (aka 121) and 704 ops (aka 135.243) not be considered equivalent?
Nope. The FAA has already addressed this exact issue in a letter of interpretation. Flight time for non US carriers is not allowable under this reg.
Xdashdriver is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
westwind1
Aviation Law
85
12-25-2015 02:18 PM
corl737
Major
7
09-04-2009 05:41 PM
newpilot
Regional
18
07-09-2006 02:17 PM
skymastr76
Regional
5
11-24-2005 01:20 PM
CRM1337
Major
1
10-02-2005 07:12 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices