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How many pilots stagnate getting to 1,500 hrs

Old 05-11-2018, 08:04 AM
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Default How many pilots stagnate getting to 1,500 hrs

I would like to get some experienced feedback on the 1,500 hour number. It seems to me that it is a significant barrier that has likely wiped out a lot of professional pilot dreams. I see CFIs struggling to log the time to get to the airlines.

I am not here to argue the need or reason behind the rule. But i would like to hear from some of you that know of pilots that simply gave up trying to get to 1,500 hours. It can be a very long, multi year, low-wage process to get those hours. I am currently running into CFIs that are building hours so slowly, they are willing to split time and pay for hours.

It makes you wonder if the Feds will ever look at this figure again and decide to amend it. Is the 1,500 too high? I know some think it is and others think it isn't. Still, it seems like it is a significant hurdle in the career path and it is contributing to the shrinking pool of qualified pilot candidates.
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Pilatus801 View Post
I would like to get some experienced feedback on the 1,500 hour number. It seems to me that it is a significant barrier that has likely wiped out a lot of professional pilot dreams. I see CFIs struggling to log the time to get to the airlines.

I am not here to argue the need or reason behind the rule. But i would like to hear from some of you that know of pilots that simply gave up trying to get to 1,500 hours. It can be a very long, multi year, low-wage process to get those hours. I am currently running into CFIs that are building hours so slowly, they are willing to split time and pay for hours.

It makes you wonder if the Feds will ever look at this figure again and decide to amend it. Is the 1,500 too high? I know some think it is and others think it isn't. Still, it seems like it is a significant hurdle in the career path and it is contributing to the shrinking pool of qualified pilot candidates.
$7.00 a gallon 100LL is as much or more of a problem. We need general aviation engines that do not harken back to the 1930s, that can reliably and safely get 200 horsepower from 200 cubic inches displacement with decent economy on 86 octane mogas.

Then we need a cheap rugged airframe to put that engine in. Something akin to an RV with the sort of instruments, avionics, and autopilots the EAA community has demonstrated can work quite well at a small fraction of the cost of TSO'd instruments.

Then put one of those engines on either side of a light twin retractable, even just a two seater, that is reasonably economical to produce and reasonably economical to fly.

Jump starting general aviation is the only reasonably economical way to bring the cost of getting the cost of those hours down.
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:04 AM
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Flight instructors are in pretty high demand right now at most universities and large flight schools.

If a CFI isn’t flying “enough” then they need to go where the students are.

Also, companies like ACC are reportedly hiring pilots at or under 500tt.

If you want it bad enough, you’ll figure it out...
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:43 AM
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These “new generation” aviators don’t even realize how good they have it right now. Back in the late 80’s/early 90’s, Nobody was hiring and the average total time was 3000+, just to get hired by a regional (called “commuters” back then) for less than minimum wage. That was alot of CFI work or 135, but excellent “character building” experience.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:00 AM
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The people who stagnate are the people who are not willing or able to make the lifestyle changes necessary to pursue the career wholeheartedly. There are CFI jobs galore at the big academies, where you will knock out your time in a little time over a year. Just a hour ago, I ran into a guy who used to be line service at an FBO that I worked at. He got a job up in Alaska at about 300 hours, and then moved to the right seat of a Lear 35 CONUS at 500 hours. He said he's getting moved to the left seat as soon as he has 1500 hours. Can you imagine, Lear PIC at 1500 TT! That's both amazing and scary at the same time if you ask me.

Personally, I started my career in the spring of 2014. I'm almost to 4000 hours, a couple jet types, making 6 figures etc. The people I know who are still low time and working low paying jobs are the ones who didn't want to move, didn't get their CFI, are just odd people who don't network very well, or or had some other reason they didn't throw everything they had into their career.

There's never been a better time to be a professional pilot for someone who really wants it, but the 1500 hour rule just makes you prove you are actually committed to it before you get the keys to a shiny airliner.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:06 AM
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Easiest it’s been for 50 years to get a flying job.

Best pay for entry level jobs since who knows when?


You are going to have to look elsewhere for sympathy I would think
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Pilatus801 View Post
I would like to get some experienced feedback on the 1,500 hour number. It seems to me that it is a significant barrier that has likely wiped out a lot of professional pilot dreams. I see CFIs struggling to log the time to get to the airlines.

I am not here to argue the need or reason behind the rule. But i would like to hear from some of you that know of pilots that simply gave up trying to get to 1,500 hours. It can be a very long, multi year, low-wage process to get those hours. I am currently running into CFIs that are building hours so slowly, they are willing to split time and pay for hours.

It makes you wonder if the Feds will ever look at this figure again and decide to amend it. Is the 1,500 too high? I know some think it is and others think it isn't. Still, it seems like it is a significant hurdle in the career path and it is contributing to the shrinking pool of qualified pilot candidates.

No sympathy from the old-school civilians. They had to have 2,500 with probably 1,000 multi turbine to get a job at a regional flying a turboprop like a metro-liner. I got hired with 1500, which was the easy part. The hard part was getting the several hundred multi hours that all regionals required even 15 years ago.


Trust me, that 1500 hours is good for you. The price of gas is irrelevant if you get a CFI job.
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
$7.00 a gallon 100LL is as much or more of a problem. We need general aviation engines that do not harken back to the 1930s, that can reliably and safely get 200 horsepower from 200 cubic inches displacement with decent economy on 86 octane mogas.

Then we need a cheap rugged airframe to put that engine in. Something akin to an RV with the sort of instruments, avionics, and autopilots the EAA community has demonstrated can work quite well at a small fraction of the cost of TSO'd instruments.

Then put one of those engines on either side of a light twin retractable, even just a two seater, that is reasonably economical to produce and reasonably economical to fly.

Jump starting general aviation is the only reasonably economical way to bring the cost of getting the cost of those hours down.

Yes, they are migrating to diesel (jet A) engines), they burn about half the fuel and it's cheaper too. There will also be battery-powered trainers soon enough.



But airplanes will not be getting much cheaper, and you can thank lawyers and stupid juries of our "peers" for that. A new ASEL that costs $300k probably actually costs half that, the rest of it is for "liability reserve", which the mfg puts in the bank to pay the inevitable lawsuits and settlements. I suspect that light GA airplanes probably have the highest liability reserve of any manufactured product.


Also... from a liability perspective, if the airplane is going to be IFR certified the manufacturer is pretty much going to go full glass with all the bells and whistles, simply to reduce the odds of crashes.
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:19 AM
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The 1500 hour rule is an arbitrary and political-protectionist barrier to entry that is unnecessary and has nothing to do with safety.


If people are willing to get their CFI and/or move throughout the country or be on the road for months at a time, then yes building those 1500 hours can happen in under 2 years.
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pilatus801 View Post
I would like to get some experienced feedback on the 1,500 hour number. It seems to me that it is a significant barrier that has likely wiped out a lot of professional pilot dreams. I see CFIs struggling to log the time to get to the airlines.
Ridiculous.

When I began flying and as my career progressed, the notion of making it to a commuter or regional with much less than 2,500 hours was a pipe dream. EVERYBODY has to put in their dues. Later, along came the crop of 250 hour wonders who began to think it was perfectly natural to run to an airline with a wet-ink commercial certificate. It became a matter of entitlement. Today there are those who cry because it takes an extra year or so, and they need at least 1,500 hours to get to regional jobs that pay first year first officers what captains used to make. Captains with years on the job.

People today don't have a freaking clue just how good they've got it, and yet whine and cry about needing 1,500 hours. Truly amazing. And disgusting.

It took me 15 years to get my first turbine job, and very very few will have to go through what many of us did to get that far. Today the silver spoon barely leaves the lips before its back in again and the curtain climbing career hopper is off to the races, convinced of himself that he's suffered aplenty while putting in his dues.

Stagnating because one must gain a little experience? Hardly. It's very difficult to feel any sympathy at all for those who feel the struggle too hard to get to 1,500 hours. It's barely scratching the surface.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Also... from a liability perspective, if the airplane is going to be IFR certified the manufacturer is pretty much going to go full glass with all the bells and whistles, simply to reduce the odds of crashes.
That's rather capricious and non-sequitur. Glass cockpits don't "reduce the odds of crashes," and glass cockpits don't reduce "liability," or alter a manufacturers legal duty.
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