Quarryman

This man (or woman) speaks the truth. I did the very same thing and while I learned from my mistakes I could not recover the time I lost. 135 SIC time is especially worthless and will not count toward 121 time required for upgrade

Macjet

My experiences have nothing to do with 121 overruns at any carrier. You'd have to look at those specific incidents and not my resume. So, I don't think that explains anything.

I'm former military but I don't know everything. I can tell you quite a bit about a few olive green helicopters though but not everything.

I've never worked for nor have I trained any Atlas, Omni, or Eastern crews. Being large airplane operators I don't know if they're subject to 14 CFR 121, 125, 135, parts of those, or all of those. I am familiar with XO. They were our competitors when I flew for NetJets. You apparently failed to see my prior 91, 135, and 91k experiences. I flew Navajos, King Airs, Citations, and Learjets for almost 20 years before moving to 121. I've also been with a training center since just after the last major economic collapse. Multiple types, FOM/GOM's, OpSpecs, left seat, right seat, and IP. Hilton Head, Aspen, Eagle, Telluride, Sun Valley, Truckee, etc. Been there, done it, had a beer and BBQ, and left. Same as a lot of guys.

Now, none of this makes me a 'know it all' (but you did use 'your' instead of 'you're' above) but my experience is a bit wide ranging. I flew by a factor of 10:1 corporate/fractional/charter to airline and was offering my advice to the OP based upon my experience. I also relayed how flying 135/91/91k set back my airline career and cost me years of seniority which costs me money, schedules, vacation, etc.

And no, 135 guys don't do better transitioning to airline training. They struggle the most. I know, me and the other 3 guys in my class had to work much harder than our regional counterparts. They had been doing the job with ramp crews, gate agents, FA's, ramp control, etc where our experience was coffee/ice/paper, load the bags, and don't forget the Atlantic bucks. 135 guys aren't retarded but their experience is different and the transition will generally be more difficult.

I'll say it again, if the OP wants an airline career then go to work for the airlines. There is an incredible amount of hiring right now and getting in on the wrong side of this wave could be detrimental. Ask the Delta guys hired on the backside of '85-91 (IIRC).

Sliceback

UA said one year that 94% of their civilian new hires came from Part 121 carriers. That left 6% for the Part 135, 91, sky divers, banner tows, foreign airlines, etc.

Do you want to jump in the 6% pool or the 94% pool?

2StgTurbine

Be careful with statistics. 99% of people that use statistics to win an argument don't have the expertise or training to actually understand what the numbers mean. You are attempting to use runway overruns as a measure of safety between 135 and 121.

Each major airline does about a million departures a year. No 135 company comes even close to that. That means that even if 121 and 135 operators all had the same accident RATE, then 121 would have more accidents. That doesn't mean that 121 is less safe.

Now since there is not comprehensive study to prove that 121 is less safe than 135, we are stuck with anecdotal stories.

I have done both and without a doubt, 121 is the better of the two. It is not that 135 is bad, some of the best pilots I have ever flown with are 135 pilots. The problem is there is very little oversight or cross company learning in the 135 world. While I met a bunch of great pilots in 135, I have come across a lot more unsafe pilots.

They probably could be great pilots if they were exposed to some of great things that 121 has that 135 doesn't. Most 135 companies don't have a large well-funded department whose job it is to go through thousands of hours of FDR data to find the close calls that the entire pilot group can benefit from learning about. And when it comes to "training" in 135, it is miles behind. Again, there are some great instructors and great programs, but there are also a lot of bad ones. I have actually stop lessons so I could teach the sim instructor stuff that a CFI should know. I would actually go into training with the PTS, numerous advisory circulars, and the AFM all bookmarked for the inevitable moment that the sim instructor made a mistake. I actually had to teach one what the significance of V2 was. Then I got to watch a pilot red screen on a two engine RNAV approach because AP wasn't available on a checkride. The instructor's response was, "Well you have a trip tomorrow and I'm sure you have done plenty of RNAVs before without an issue, so don't worry about it."

That being said, there is still a lot of good. You get to see some great places and there is way less company drama. If your goal is a major airline, then go to a 121 carrier. If decide you don't like it, look for one of the good 135 operators.

KC135

It honestly doesn't matter if you're wrong or right about who transitions better. All the matters is what HR at legacy thinks and they put 135 time at the bottom of the resume stack.

Sliceback

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...Stats2014.aspx

2005-2014 accident rates average (+/-) -

121 135

flight hour(100,000) 0.18 1.5

departures(100,000) 0.31 0.8


Part 135 is 3-8x more dangerous using the NTSB accident rates.

Lagoon

I looked at Skywest. They seem to be the highest paying for entry level positions.

Can you point me toward a regional that offers 60K for first year FOs?

I'm in my late 30s and and I'm trying to fast track my career and get to where I want to be, establish myself financially and professionally, as fast as possible.

TiredSoul

I've flown 135 for 2 years for 1000hrs.
Couldn't go to the Regionals because I had a mortgage to pay.
And now I don't need to.
135 is a 'known' entity for type rides, check rides and FAA oversight ( hopefully).
Find a big reputable company not some fly by night turkey jive operation.

Learflyer

Amen brother.

Learflyer

To add to MOGuy's side if things, I personally count about 35 people from our large 135 that went directly to a legacy airline.


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