Southern Air 777 schedule
#32
Swapping MXP for ICN and adding ANC and SHJ overnights are nice and all, but that's not really any different than it was when I was pulling gear for the drunks and degenerates.
Still three laps a month? Or is it two laps and a week of reserve? FOs still deadheading every third leg for half pay? Everybody still flying right up against the 1000 hour/365 limit?
I'm rooting for you guys. I've never flown with such good people anywhere. But Southern was - and as far as I can tell - still is a sh!! sandwich. You're still essentially operating under the terms and conditions of the original SACG contract from what, 2002? Fifteen years without a real pay raise. And no real expectations of things getting better. How can you encourage anyone to come to Southern? Ten years ago, it was a good deal. The future looked bright. More planes, NEW planes! Majors furloughing, Regionals paying nothing. See the world! Fly heavy jets! But that's not how it is anymore. Connie has a new contract. His FOs make more than Southern Captains! RJ carriers pay more than Southern, with better days off, medical, and retirement. Air Wisconsin pays a signing bonus that is larger than a new hire Southern Air FO's entire annual paycheck.
Southern Air may have a good future. But there are no indications that it is going to get better anytime soon. And right now this minute, there is hardly an airline out there that has worse terms and conditions.
Good God man, it would be a mortal sin to not warn everyone with the least interest in Southern that there are much better opportunities almost everywhere else.
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: 777 Left window seat
Posts: 632
I'm not encouraging anyone to come here. There are far too many unknowns IMO to risk coming IF you have other options. I don't think SAI is all rainbows & unicorns. In fact, I'm afraid Purchase is going to sell us down the river. So, robthree, nothing has really changed. But if someone is going to give out info re. a company they should at least have some credibility and accurate info. Your post to Mr. Rumbold showed your lack of accurate, current information.
Rob, there has to be a thousand things better to do with your time then to try and be a flashing warning light to perspective SAI pilots. Spend more time with your family instead of the keyboard, volunteer for your current union, find some way to volunteer your prose for UAL marketing....God knows they need help. Do anything other then waste your valuable time bashing your previous employer and former fellow pilots.
Rob, there has to be a thousand things better to do with your time then to try and be a flashing warning light to perspective SAI pilots. Spend more time with your family instead of the keyboard, volunteer for your current union, find some way to volunteer your prose for UAL marketing....God knows they need help. Do anything other then waste your valuable time bashing your previous employer and former fellow pilots.
#34
Realistically Atlas and Southern still will have an inbox FULL of resumes no matter what is posted here. So much of the misery is self induced here. I am cautiously optimistic for a new contract for both of us under an SOC, and the company, weather people want to believe it or not, is obviously making steps towards that with GOM revisions and making procedures similar across the fleet. FYI for the guys who havnt been at either company in a while but still like to "warn" people.
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 532
Realistically Atlas and Southern still will have an inbox FULL of resumes no matter what is posted here. So much of the misery is self induced here. I am cautiously optimistic for a new contract for both of us under an SOC, and the company, weather people want to believe it or not, is obviously making steps towards that with GOM revisions and making procedures similar across the fleet. FYI for the guys who havnt been at either company in a while but still like to "warn" people.
#36
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,436
Seems I owe Diesel8 an apology.
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 260
I am not a drunk nor a degenerate and know plenty of people here at SAI that aren't. How dare you paint everyone with your black paint.
So, you were at SAI for two years, BFD! WTF do you know about what the core group of pilots have done or accomplished, and do so every day, numerous times a day?
So, you denigrate the actions of people that put the effort in making things better? Every quarter of an inch better that things get at SAI comes from inordinate effort. Did you ever do a fatigue call in your lengthy tenure at SAI? What did you ever do to try to make things significantly better? Whining on the internet?
So, in one paragraph you insult everyone, then in a later one you extoll their values? Which paragraph do you think we see as your true sentiment?
Collectively we are all happy that you have been able to go to that greener pasture. There are many at SAI that are stuck there, and not for anything they are, or have done. To you, we wish you tailwinds in your current venue.
So, go ahead, go slap the faceless corporate entity of SAI all you want. But don't you dare insult the many good people here that do professional work, in spite of the way they are treated.
Oh, and before you go, why don't you try looking in a real mirror, one that shows that you are truly far from being as perfect as your rhetoric belies.
[- Vile personal invective deleted -]
Vaya con Dios
Last edited by Diesel8; 06-27-2017 at 05:59 AM.
#39
Serious charge for a professional to lay at the feet of others so casually. Any of that substantiated or properly reported? Slander, i.e. defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which harms the reputation of the person(s) defamed. Civil wrong that may become basis for a lawsuit.
Seems I owe Diesel8 an apology.
Seems I owe Diesel8 an apology.
Sorry guys, the joke didn't survive transmission. Entirely my fault. I am truly sorry I failed to make it clear that I respect the pilots at Southern and the outstanding work they do under appalling conditions.
I didn't get where I am through any great virtues. It beats me why United called me and not any of a hundred other guys at SAI that I consider more qualified then myself.
D8 - I pulled gear on the triple for two years. After my furlough off the -400. After I got displaced off the classic. Before I took the Guppy upgrade. Yeah, I know about the concessionary contract that was voted down - I was one of the NO votes - and then rerun by the union. Yeah, I know about the 737 LOA. And I voted no there, too. Yeah, I volunteered my time for the Teamsters. I deadheaded for 30 hours, in a middle coach seat, just to have an extra day at home. I flew Africa, in a classic, with no APU. I flew JFK-FRA without any catering except water. I did South America turns on the Centurion contract. I sat in Saudi for 6 months. I swatted mosquitoes all the way back from Dacca. I delivered who knows what into Bagram, and took flag draped boxes out. So yeah, I'm familiar with what Southern pilots have done, and continue to do, every durn day.
That doesn't make Southern any more attractive right now. And it certainly doesn't mean 777 guys will see much of a variety on their layovers.
As for my reasons for visiting, I don't drink alone, and I don't drink with slick ties. So its nice that this forum exists to distract me on the occasional layover.
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: EMB145 Captain
Posts: 193
Atlas pilot applicants beware of bait and switch!
The pilot recruiting effort at Atlas has become so desperate that Atlas managers are apparently attempting to lure new hires who have not done their homework into accepting a position with Southern Air. Atlas Air managers are enticing pilot applicants with the false promise of a new contract with improved terms and pay by later this year. But the CEO Bill Flynn is already on ...record with investors during the February 23, 2017 earnings call explaining that pilot costs will not change this year (i.e. no new contract).
As Atlas and Southern struggle to staff airframes, managers are also promising a complete seniority integration between the two carriers as well as a new and improved contract. Both Atlas and Southern contracts (CBAs) are posted on this website under the "Pilots" tab, but here are the important FACTS about accepting a position at Southern in lieu of a position at Atlas. Your success at this organization depends on you performing your own due diligence in order to navigate the misleading and often false information coming from headquarters.
Southern guarantee 60 hours.
Pay $61.20 - Year 1.
$69.95 - Year 2.
$73.03 - Year 3.
$2,000 per month/first four months.
Per Diem $2.50.
20 days on / per month.
Rig 3.5 / per day.
Atlas FOs make 92% of a Southern captain. Southern FOs make 67% of what an Atlas B-747 FO makes.
Southern pilots work 20 days a month. Normally, that consists of flying two laps around the planet, adding up to 70+ hours over the course of 14 to 17 days, which is typically followed by sitting reserve at no extra pay until reaching 20 days since you likely will have already broke the 70-hour mark.
As a junior pilot, the odds of working back-to-back months (40 days out) are pretty good.
Upgrade is currently 10 years on the 777. If you are planning to build PIC time, chances of that happening are not likely.
Junior assignment happens often and cannot be refused. If crew scheduling talks to you, you cannot say no.
Medical is pricey and, at best, the plan is poor.
If you do commercial, you will get coach and the odds are good that you will get to enjoy a center seat.
Vacation, you get two vacation periods a year. A vacation line includes 15 work days, instead of 20.
Vacation periods cannot be taken in the same month. Many vacation lines have you flying two quick laps around the planet and then home for 15 days.
The pilot recruiting effort at Atlas has become so desperate that Atlas managers are apparently attempting to lure new hires who have not done their homework into accepting a position with Southern Air. Atlas Air managers are enticing pilot applicants with the false promise of a new contract with improved terms and pay by later this year. But the CEO Bill Flynn is already on ...record with investors during the February 23, 2017 earnings call explaining that pilot costs will not change this year (i.e. no new contract).
As Atlas and Southern struggle to staff airframes, managers are also promising a complete seniority integration between the two carriers as well as a new and improved contract. Both Atlas and Southern contracts (CBAs) are posted on this website under the "Pilots" tab, but here are the important FACTS about accepting a position at Southern in lieu of a position at Atlas. Your success at this organization depends on you performing your own due diligence in order to navigate the misleading and often false information coming from headquarters.
Southern guarantee 60 hours.
Pay $61.20 - Year 1.
$69.95 - Year 2.
$73.03 - Year 3.
$2,000 per month/first four months.
Per Diem $2.50.
20 days on / per month.
Rig 3.5 / per day.
Atlas FOs make 92% of a Southern captain. Southern FOs make 67% of what an Atlas B-747 FO makes.
Southern pilots work 20 days a month. Normally, that consists of flying two laps around the planet, adding up to 70+ hours over the course of 14 to 17 days, which is typically followed by sitting reserve at no extra pay until reaching 20 days since you likely will have already broke the 70-hour mark.
As a junior pilot, the odds of working back-to-back months (40 days out) are pretty good.
Upgrade is currently 10 years on the 777. If you are planning to build PIC time, chances of that happening are not likely.
Junior assignment happens often and cannot be refused. If crew scheduling talks to you, you cannot say no.
Medical is pricey and, at best, the plan is poor.
If you do commercial, you will get coach and the odds are good that you will get to enjoy a center seat.
Vacation, you get two vacation periods a year. A vacation line includes 15 work days, instead of 20.
Vacation periods cannot be taken in the same month. Many vacation lines have you flying two quick laps around the planet and then home for 15 days.
How is this bait and switch typically going down?
Are people interviewing for atlas and then getting southern job offers?
If they are doing this, and you say, "No thanks, i'll take Atlas" will they just say, "Okay then, have a nice life?" or will they wise up and realize you aren't a pushover?
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