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K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !

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K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !

Old 01-13-2018, 11:01 AM
  #451  
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Originally Posted by catching waves View Post
And another day has gone by, with no answer regarding my post. Why do you all care whether K4 stays or goes? As some of you clearly point out how abysmal the working conditions are at some teamster represented companies, shouldn’t your energies be focused on fixing your messed up house instead of stirring up ours? Seriously, let it go. Go on with you life. Enough is enough. All your doing now is screaming into the face of the winds of change.
I care, because I work here, and don't want to choose between being a scab or losing my job next time 1224 strikes. I also care because Teamsters landed us an industry leading contract along with winning us a major duty time arbitration.

They care because they view this as bigger then two pilot groups in a dong measuring contest, just as I do. This isn't Kalitta vs. Atlas. This is ACMI pilots vs. ACMI management. Have you seriously not payed any attention to the ABX/ATI whipsaw? Because if you have any idea of what's going on over there, how can you support this? How can anyone support this? You really want to fuel that race to the bottom?

I'm so tired of hearing about the contract not being put out to vote. If you seriously believe that the couple months of lost wages is more important then a huge QoL/Schedule increase then I don't know what to tell you. Doing a 26 hour duty day and not having to airline at the end of it turning it into a 30 hour duty day is amazing. I just did the same pairing, exact scenario before and after the arbitration. Hitting the hotel room instead of cramming into the back of a 73 is pretty sweet. Thanks Teamsters!

If this contract went out to vote without the duty time limitations it would have passed. We'd have the same contract but be operating under worse duty rules. I'd say Teamsters and 1224 protected us from ourselves.

If you want to play the whole K4 against the world game...great...I think our contractual gains will be worse then sticking together as an ACMI community...

I would rather work together, avoid the whipsaw, and continuously improve this segment of the industry together with Teamsters and 1224.

They're not perfect, but they're a whole lot better then the alternative.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:05 AM
  #452  
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Have you noticed that every K4 pilot that came from an ALPA regional within the past two to three years is dead set against switching to ALPA?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:08 AM
  #453  
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It is better for K4 and Atlas if they are both in the same union. That way we can support each other better for strikes (like Atlas did for ABX), and avoid undercutting each other for pay and conditions in our contracts.

The 0.1% in the US have done a masterful job of dividing their workers, to keep them down. It has gotten to the point that many workers, who work in industries that are mostly/partially unionized, or formerly unionized, are AGAINST unions. That is EXACTLY what the 0.1% needs to keep most of the money for themselves. The best the working classes ever had it in US history was when the highest % of workers were in unions.

A huge part of the Black/White racism and other racial issues in the US, have been intentionally created by the 0.1% to keep us fighting each other, and ignoring the ever-increasing money flow to the top. If the workers of the US united, the 0.1% would only have their fair share of the money, instead of their fair share, plus 80% of our fair share.

Namaste...
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:37 AM
  #454  
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Originally Posted by No Land 3 View Post
Have you noticed that every K4 pilot that came from an ALPA regional within the past two to three years is dead set against switching to ALPA?

I too have flown for a regional carrier, and I couldn’t agree more that ALPA did a poor job representing us. I have said many times on this thread that ALPA CANNOT represent a regional pilot group while representing the major carrier, as there is a conflict of interest. The difference is Kalitta is not a regional and we are beholden to no one, so there is not a conflict of interest to be concerned with.

Unless of course you consider the HUGE conflict of interest with Teamsters.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:41 AM
  #455  
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Picket line is a picket line. Doesn’t matter what union represents you.

ABX DID NOT STRIKE. It was a status quo violation. The NMB has not released anyone to strike SINCE 2007.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:56 AM
  #456  
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Originally Posted by Code Red View Post
Picket line is a picket line. Doesn’t matter what union represents you.

ABX DID NOT STRIKE. It was a status quo violation. The NMB has not released anyone to strike SINCE 2007.
It was a status quo STRIKE. Everyone but ALPA held the line. Including non-union 135 operators and Canadian operators. What was ALPA’s excuse again?
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:24 PM
  #457  
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Originally Posted by jhugz View Post
I care, because I work here, and don't want to choose between being a scab or losing my job next time 1224 strikes. I also care because Teamsters landed us an industry leading contract along with winning us a major duty time arbitration.

They care because they view this as bigger then two pilot groups in a dong measuring contest, just as I do. This isn't Kalitta vs. Atlas. This is ACMI pilots vs. ACMI management. Have you seriously not payed any attention to the ABX/ATI whipsaw? Because if you have any idea of what's going on over there, how can you support this? How can anyone support this? You really want to fuel that race to the bottom?

I'm so tired of hearing about the contract not being put out to vote. If you seriously believe that the couple months of lost wages is more important then a huge QoL/Schedule increase then I don't know what to tell you. Doing a 26 hour duty day and not having to airline at the end of it turning it into a 30 hour duty day is amazing. I just did the same pairing, exact scenario before and after the arbitration. Hitting the hotel room instead of cramming into the back of a 73 is pretty sweet. Thanks Teamsters!

If this contract went out to vote without the duty time limitations it would have passed. We'd have the same contract but be operating under worse duty rules. I'd say Teamsters and 1224 protected us from ourselves.

If you want to play the whole K4 against the world game...great...I think our contractual gains will be worse then sticking together as an ACMI community...

I would rather work together, avoid the whipsaw, and continuously improve this segment of the industry together with Teamsters and 1224.

They're not perfect, but they're a whole lot better then the alternative.
You have no idea about the things you talk about - your details are all totally wrong
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:26 PM
  #458  
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Originally Posted by Code Red View Post
Picket line is a picket line. Doesn’t matter what union represents you.

ABX DID NOT STRIKE. It was a status quo violation. The NMB has not released anyone to strike SINCE 2007.
Exactly! That's why they were holding signs that said "ABX Air pilots are upset about a status quo violation!"



Oh..Wait...
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:26 PM
  #459  
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Originally Posted by No Land 3 View Post
Have you noticed that every K4 pilot that came from an ALPA regional within the past two to three years is dead set against switching to ALPA?
this statement couldn't be more factually wrong
I see you are for staying in 1224 and you my know some others - but many from
rj land support it
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:26 PM
  #460  
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
And, again, the companies may compete, but the pilot groups should do what they can to mitigate competitive advantages that are due to substandard contracts. There is a concept called "the race to the bottom". Stick around long enough and you'll see it happen in the airline industry. It is a disgusting situation that airline management greedily exploits when pilot groups are not working together under their unions. But since you don't seem to be a union guy, maybe that's what you want.

The answer to the first two questions is "to negotiate the best contract possible."

As for #3, under what possible circumstances would Connie cease operations as it relates to Teamsters?

Question #4: Connie isn't underbidding Atlas, they are being subcontracted to fill flights that Atlas can't operate due to understaffing.

Let me ask you a question.

How, exactly, has Atlas benefitted from these "stall tactics" at Omni or Kalitta? In case you haven't noticed, life at Atlas sucks while you are enjoying a decent Teamster contract.

As for ALPA's operating statements, their actions speak louder than their words. I have seen ALPA operate where I worked at three different airlines, two of which were ACMI operators. K4 pilots will be the bastard stepchildren when it comes to getting any assistance from ALPA.

I speak from over twenty years of ALPA experience. Do you?

8

This is a wonderful thought but unfortunately, we are not living in utopia. Pilots are pilots, and we are not at odds with one another, at least we shouldn’t be. I’m sorry you believe our contract is substandard, and the duty day which was arbitrated is not up you your standards. What you fail to understand is Kalitta is not the size of Atlas, and what works for you does not work for us. This has been said repeatedly, but regrettably this fact is ignored.

Let’s try this one more time for the record. The duty day Kalitta has works for us, what it wasn’t was “a race to the bottom”. I hope that whatever you negotiate works for you and your pilots. Everyone please stop complaining about our duty day, it had been arbitrated, decided and it is ours to contend with. Thank you enough said.

I completely understand why you feel Teamsters is better than ALPA, given the fact Teamsters is really Atlas. Were I in your shoes, I may have a different perspective. You believe the K4 pilots will be bastard stepchildren, when I read the language in our contract written by the Teamsters, I already know we were treated like bastard stepchildren. The language in many sections was written to be vague, so why would anyone want contractual language to be vague? The answer is simple, revenue generating for the legal department. Ask our pilots just what they think of this vague language. I am ready to once again be represented by a professional organization that will take the time to put clear, concise language into a contract to avoid any confusion. In addition, I do not want any outside interference when Kalitta pilots negotiate our next contract, and this is what ALPA will bring to the table.
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