ocskyguy

Silly boy... You really don't know how it works, do you? I am a current K4 guy and a veteran of 5Y in lives between Kalitta v1.0 and v2.0. It ain't about the tier. It is about the money!
FYI, your "top tier" Asiana contract is being flown by K4 because 5Y can't cover their own commitments. And, Connie being Connie, guess who had his **** up Flynn's ass?
Look, Atlas is a fine company. But, dude, you need to take off the rose colored glasses. We, all the ACMI carriers, are down here in the muck together. You are not FDX or UPS and never will be. Neither are we. Our end of the industry is made up of sharks and snakes. Somehow along the way, we managed to gentrify ourselves a little. But, we are still, as Gann said "living in the back alleys of aviation". Get over yourself...

DC8DRIVER

And THIS is the ignorant mindset that the flight crew negotiators at all ACMI carriers are up against. The "We're just not worth it" lack of professional self worth does nothing but work against us.

Years ago, FedEx and UPS pilots thought they weren't worth as much as major pax carriers, too. Until they were.

Negotiating new contracts requires knowledge of what the parent company can afford and a pilot group that has a spine. Some old school "company guys" still think the success of the company they work for requires their blind loyalty, a ridiculous salary sacrifice, and always their "extra effort".

Fortunately, that attitude is retiring in droves these days.

ocskyguy

Dude, nobody said anything about not being worth it. The contract that K4 got puts us squarely at the top of the pack of ACMI carriers. We did not sacrifice s@&t to get a deal.

Ridiculous salary, my butt. Over 300K so far and it ain't Christmas yet. BTW, no days off were sacrificed in the fattening of my wallet...

My point was that saying 5Y is a "top tier" ACMI compared to K4 or any other ACMI is laughable...

vroll1800

"Top of the pack of ACMI carriers" = "Cream of the Crap." Congrats, sir, on K4 being "COTC".

Screwed

K4 maybe the "Cream of the Crap" ,but that is a whole lot better than being the "Crap of the Crap" at Atlas.

I used to believe K4 pilots accepted a crappy contract and I really blasted K4 pilots for it.

BUT I WAS WRONG. VERY WRONG.

They have it much better than we do at Atlas.

Captains making in the 300,000's without working extra and FO's in the mid 100,000s . No imputed income,..... paid to and from home with home basing. Low cost health benefits . They are not being sued 2x by their employer. No letters home that are veiled threats for spouses to read. K4 pilots are not being severely punished (suspended, loss of pay for 2 months) for asking for coffee! etc etc.

Meanwhile I bet Connie and his senior management team are not paying themselves $71 million in bonuses this past year.

Globemaster2827

For their Captains to credit "300s" they'd have to credit 1200 hours a year on a contract with no rig. How does that happen without breaking FARs?

White Cap

Haha, pretty funny. I have made a career out of fighting "company men" from these scumbag ACMI carriers. Unfortunately, it has costs me dearly in the wallet. But knock yourself out, not sure how you make that kind of money, but I am guessing it involves stabbing IBT guys in the back.

Atlas is certainly not in the muck. The top few dozen executives are riding a gravy train with biscuit wheels. We only have ourselves to blame for having exactly two contracts in sixteen years. So many of the old guard have been complicit in this situation. As for Flynn and his cronies, they are hard core businessmen who have a crystal ball in this business. Lowballing pilots is only business to them.

Finally, it is not "all about the money". We all agreed to work as IBT guys and follow the CBA. We all pull together for the common good. Being all about the money is frankly sad and pathetic, and is usually the mantra of the trash that cross a picket line.

atpcliff

The whole "ACMI" segment vs. "National" segment vs. "Major" segment vs. "Intntl" is now all irrelevant, with the Pilot Shortage, which is getting worse and worse each month.

There are three pilots: A regional guy, a -135 guy, and a corporate girl. They are all looking to move on to a better situation, and better pay. To get much better Terms and Conditions, they are looking at China, Japan, the Middle East, DAL/UAL/AA/FedEx/UPS/SWA, Jet Blue, Atlas, Kalitta, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Allegiant, US mil contract overseas, +++. EVERY aviation organization is now competing for the above 3 pilots, because they are all that's left. If ANY of the above entities want to staff their planes, they now have to compete with ALL of the above entities.

Kalitta, Atlas, China Eastern, UPS and DAL are ALL competing for the same pilot. It's a New World!

Example:
I just jumpseated on Allegiant, for the first time. Overall, it was great. The pilots said that, once they got their new contract (40% increase in pilot costs for mgmt), they had a tonne of new resumes. But, then a LOT of places got new contracts. Now, they are right back where they were before the new contract...not many pilots applying, and a lot of pilots looking to leave.

ocskyguy

Very simple my friend... We often double crew longer legs. In our world everybody gets paid for the full trip. And, when you throw in DH pay, a few shekels for training and vacation time sold (do ya really need 21 days of vaca with a 16 day a month schedule. Our vacation only counts against a day you would have been flying, not straight weeks like others.), it is actually not that hard to credit 1200+ hours a year in pay credit. (disclaimer... I also work heavily in the sim, which doesn't fall under the FARs, so it is possible to accumulate 70 credit hours a week doing double sim periods, which is becoming the norm because of our **** storm of hiring. Also, a single digit seniority number, which comes with some schedule assurances.)

Atrasaty

We have guys like you at Atlas too.......some of them are in the $400k+ club.