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K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !

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K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !

Old 01-11-2018, 09:19 AM
  #421  
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Maxjet,
Very well said! I completely agree with everything stated in your post.

No Land 3,
Your statement is false and coming from the 1224 lawyers. I know this as a fact, because I just sat next to DP in recurrent GS and he is VERY excited to be the interim MEC under ALPA. Then we will hold elections after K4 pilots and our contract are represented by ALPA. Matter of fact you should contact him if you want to step up because he said he will need an interim F/O rep.

Last edited by The Baron; 01-11-2018 at 09:24 AM. Reason: run on sentence.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:44 PM
  #422  
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Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
Maxjet,
Very well said! I completely agree with everything stated in your post.

No Land 3,
Your statement is false and coming from the 1224 lawyers. I know this as a fact, because I just sat next to DP in recurrent GS and he is VERY excited to be the interim MEC under ALPA. Then we will hold elections after K4 pilots and our contract are represented by ALPA. Matter of fact you should contact him if you want to step up because he said he will need an interim F/O rep.
I am glad to be corrected on this.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:05 AM
  #423  
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Originally Posted by maxjet View Post
Read the letter from the Union. Regarding ALPA, they are not allowed per agreement, as the Teamsters know, to tell us anything nor assist us in any way. For our union to try and twist that fact to their advantage speaks as to just how inept and desperate they are. Rather than debate the minutia in the letter I would ask all interested parties to just read or re-read the post Above He has been on the other side of this issue as a teamster rep for a while now. I give what he writes more weight than the letter from the union.

It is obvious the letter that was sent is a Hale Mary play by the teamsters. I do not believe for one minute that our Exco wrote this piece of garbage.

Lets talk facts, not deception. The Teamsters knows it is not possible for ALPA to give us a written guarantee that they will represent us. This is because ALPA cannot “raid a shop”, it is illegal for another union to do this because we already have representation. Were we not currently represented, ALPA could take an active role in seeking our membership. So, the statement that “where is the written guarantee that ALPA will represent us? There is none” is simply a way for the Teamsters to mislead us. Teamsters knows the law and so does our Exco, so what does that tell us. It tells us this letter was not written by our Exco, it was written by Teamsters.

Kalitta is not a legacy carrier, and the Teamsters would have you believe that because of this our pilot group is smaller than most of the regionals, yet this letter states “Teamsters still provide us with strong representation, including access to staff lawyers and outside counsel and support staff twenty-fours a day, seven days a week…..”. This is another misleading statement because when we change to ALPA we will have access to a stronger organization including access to staff lawyers, and support staff twenty-fours a day, seven days a week.

I love the next statement, “Management will view any change in representation as an opportunity to run roughshod over a contract they never wanted in the first place. If the company sets up an alter ego company and tries to shift our flying to another carrier to avoid the new pay rates we secured as Teamsters, we can’t rely on Doug’s unenforceable campaign promises to save our job and protect our work.” This is nothing more than a scare tactic that is laughable. Teamsters knows the contract belongs to the pilots, not the Teamsters. Remember that the company wanted to complete our negotiations and it was DW and the Teamsters that decided they knew what was best for us and held up our contract. So let me ask, who was running roughshod over who?

The Teamsters would have you believe that If you find yourself in a disciplinary investigation or a grievance meeting, only the teamsters could defend you. If you believe this I have some land I would like to sell you.

Finally, “The decertification committee is also saying that Management supports the effort to get rid of the Teamsters. Incredible! That tells us everything we need to know about what’s really going on here.” Let me ask you a question and let’s be honest. If you owned a company and as the owner of said company you came to terms with your employees on a contract only to find out some outside party says no you cannot have that deal, how would you feel? Now remember the employees and the company want to make the deal and a competitor of yours is unwilling to let you make the deal. Do you think that moving forward as the owner of the company you would rather deal with your employees and not let a competitor dictate terms to your company?

The Teamsters is Atlas and Atlas is a competitor, they do not have our best interest in mind. Teamsters claims that ALPA will not represent us, and I submit that the Teamsters has not done a good job representing us. ALPA represents “pilots”, in fact ALPA represents over 59,000 pilots from 33-different carriers. I know what organization I want to represent me.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:34 AM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by newb2 View Post
The Teamsters is Atlas and Atlas is a competitor, they do not have our best interest in mind. Teamsters claims that ALPA will not represent us, and I submit that the Teamsters has not done a good job representing us. ALPA represents “pilots”, in fact ALPA represents over 59,000 pilots from 33-different carriers. I know what organization I want to represent me.
Lots to learn. So much to learn.

First of all, Atlas, and several others in this dusty little corner of the aviation industry, your IBT brothers and sisters, have a direct vested interest in seeing you guys got the absolute best contract possible.

But if your aspiration is to go off and run away as the red headed step child of ALPA silver spooners, then best of luck to you.

Seriously. Because you're gonna need it on the next round of negotiations. What's the term of your contract by the way? Probably 5 years. The blink of an eye.

And bam. There you'll be crossing your fingers, praying to Baby Jesus FedEx shuts down the World On Time for you.

How can I see five years in the future, Mr. Newb2.



....'cause I've seen it before with ALPA. Good luck.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:57 AM
  #425  
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Originally Posted by zerozero View Post
Lots to learn. So much to learn.

First of all, Atlas, and several others in this dusty little corner of the aviation industry, your IBT brothers and sisters, have a direct vested interest in seeing you guys got the absolute best contract possible.



....'cause I've seen it before with ALPA. Good luck.

It is their right to pick who takes their money.

I was a member of ALPA at 3 different airlines. For me they were a complete waste of time and money.

Is Teamsters better? Yes. Are they great NO.

Best representation is when you are in an independent union that is not beholden to a National Organization.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:21 AM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by CargoPirate View Post
It is their right to pick who takes their money.

I was a member of ALPA at 3 different airlines. For me they were a complete waste of time and money.

Is Teamsters better? Yes. Are they great NO.

Best representation is when you are in an independent union that is not beholden to a National Organization.
Totally agree on every single point.

But the topic is about ditching IBT for ALPA, not going indie.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:53 PM
  #427  
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Originally Posted by zerozero View Post
Lots to learn. So much to learn.

First of all, Atlas, and several others in this dusty little corner of the aviation industry, your IBT brothers and sisters, have a direct vested interest in seeing you guys got the absolute best contract possible.

But if your aspiration is to go off and run away as the red headed step child of ALPA silver spooners, then best of luck to you.

Seriously. Because you're gonna need it on the next round of negotiations. What's the term of your contract by the way? Probably 5 years. The blink of an eye.

And bam. There you'll be crossing your fingers, praying to Baby Jesus FedEx shuts down the World On Time for you.

How can I see five years in the future, Mr. Newb2.



....'cause I've seen it before with ALPA. Good luck.
Go off and run away as the red headed stepchild of ALPA, really. You are entitled to your opinion but whether you agree with the move to ALPA or not, Newb does bring up some interesting points, and I noticed you did not respond to anything that was pointed out as being false.

No one at Kalitta wishes ill will toward any pilot at Atlas or any other IBT carrier, and what works for you is great, and I truly hope you get the contract you deserve. However, my experience with ALPA is completely different than yours, and although I had nothing to do with this movement I support it 100%.

After reading Newb’s post I did not find anything that essentially was incorrect, can anyone dispute what was said?
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:13 PM
  #428  
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Originally Posted by ex402dvr View Post
Go off and run away as the red headed stepchild of ALPA, really. You are entitled to your opinion but whether you agree with the move to ALPA or not, Newb does bring up some interesting points, and I noticed you did not respond to anything that was pointed out as being false.

No one at Kalitta wishes ill will toward any pilot at Atlas or any other IBT carrier, and what works for you is great, and I truly hope you get the contract you deserve. However, my experience with ALPA is completely different than yours, and although I had nothing to do with this movement I support it 100%.

After reading Newb’s post I did not find anything that essentially was incorrect, can anyone dispute what was said?
Let's assume everything he said was correct.

That doesn't make me wrong.

If you're an outsource provider (ACMI) ALPA considers you this much ---> . <--- better than a scab.

Again, ask me how I know.

Bottom line is, if you haul DHL or Amazon you're better off with all of the other ugly dirty smelly freight dogs, truck drivers, ground crew and fuelers.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:45 PM
  #429  
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It isn’t like Fed Ex is going to pull more weight with ALPA than us, should we find our selves on other ends of a dispute or anything...
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:06 PM
  #430  
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Originally Posted by No Land 3 View Post
It isn’t like Fed Ex is going to pull more weight with ALPA than us, should we find our selves on other ends of a dispute or anything...
Of course they would. They have many more members than we do. My question is what kind of dispute would we get into with FedEx? We are not in the same business at all.
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