I understand Kalitta now has FQS!
12-15-2017, 04:30 AM
#51
VHR-very happily retired
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,409
[QUOTE=WhaleWrangler;2482737]Start with Sec 22 A.2
He is not on the crew class list IE he can not hold Captain and thus can't do OE, checking etc.
I disagree, and I hope I am wrong. The Union action should clear this up.
There are crews on the will fly that have not been called to fly trips that he is. Management pilots are last on the pecking order for line flying.
If true, and I think it is, we agree wholeheartedly.
He is not on the crew class list IE he can not hold Captain and thus can't do OE, checking etc.
I disagree, and I hope I am wrong. The Union action should clear this up.
There are crews on the will fly that have not been called to fly trips that he is. Management pilots are last on the pecking order for line flying.
If true, and I think it is, we agree wholeheartedly.
12-15-2017, 06:21 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by maxjet
No cult. Just reality. If the Union has a case I fully want to proceed with it and solidly draw that line for contracts in the future.
The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.
To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.
Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.
If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.
Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.
The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.
To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.
Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.
If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.
Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.
12-15-2017, 06:23 AM
#53
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 747-8 FO
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by maxjet
No cult. Just reality. If the Union has a case I fully want to proceed with it and solidly draw that line for contracts in the future.
The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.
To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.
Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.
If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.
Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.
The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.
To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.
Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.
If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.
Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.
12-15-2017, 10:47 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by fr8ghtdawg
Your CBA distinguishes who can and cannot check crew members, Being a check airman/management pilot does not give some magical authority to bypass the CBA. You keep repeating this but you are still wrong. If the union allowed management crew members to check in the past, It does not vacate contractual obligations by the company at a later time. If 1224 is going to litigate this against Kalitta, they (The union attorneys) are not going to lose. The attorneys are much better on the union side and will obliterate them in court. Your contract defines management crew members from crew members. Its really just a matter of time till the union runs the clock out on this. ALPA will hit the ground running on this matter if there is a transfer of representation. I know you have a fondness for Capt PB, But the contract will prevail in the end.
12-15-2017, 10:51 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by Code Red
1224 is ligitating and is fighting to vacate any failures by said check pilot.
12-15-2017, 11:01 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 747-8 FO
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by TommyDevito
The Check pilot is appointed and works under the direct supervision of the FAA. The company cannot "vacate" any failures of a 14 CFR Part 121 required check.
12-15-2017, 11:06 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by fr8ghtdawg
That is correct, The union can fight to vacate failures or discipline in regard to an employees record. This I believe is the reason that the ExCo is currently accelerating an arbitration in this matter.
12-15-2017, 03:05 PM
#58
VHR-very happily retired
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,409
Originally Posted by Code Red
The only reason PB was able to be upgraded and given a letter from the FAA was because he was placed on management leave to BYPASS the seniority list!!!!! Take him off mgmt leave and he is nothing but an FO.
Why don’t we spend union resources on something that is being blatantly violated. Hotel points. No, I am not joking. Spencer is constantly violating this section of the contract. When I return to work on Monday, if the hotel does not give me points, I intend to check with the hotel committee to see if this has been agreed to by our people. If they have not, I will file a letter with the Chief Pilot followed up with a grievance if required.
12-15-2017, 03:09 PM
#59
VHR-very happily retired
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,409
Originally Posted by fr8ghtdawg
Your CBA distinguishes who can and cannot check crew members, Being a check airman/management pilot does not give some magical authority to bypass the CBA. You keep repeating this but you are still wrong. If the union allowed management crew members to check in the past, It does not vacate contractual obligations by the company at a later time. If 1224 is going to litigate this against Kalitta, they (The union attorneys) are not going to lose. The attorneys are much better on the union side and will obliterate them in court. Your contract defines management crew members from crew members. Its really just a matter of time till the union runs the clock out on this. ALPA will hit the ground running on this matter if there is a transfer of representation. I know you have a fondness for Capt PB, But the contract will prevail in the end.
12-15-2017, 04:31 PM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 747-8 FO
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by maxjet
My emotions do not enter into this at all. If I am wrong I will be the first to post on here that I am. I expect the same from you when I am proven right. My issue is wasting what I am told are precious and few dollars on bull crap like this. There are way bigger and more important items to be delt with by the union. So far lots of talk by certain union members but no action
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
