101 Reasons to Not Work For ACMIs (ABX, ATI,
01-22-2018, 10:13 AM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: Q400 Captain
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by JetRage
Im not sure mgmt here even realized how far behind this place really is. Were bidding on paper. Were flying planes with no CPDLC, no ACARS, paper jepps (although I think they're working on that), no coffee makers and often times no food.
Even the regionals are decades ahead of this place technology wise. Plus they get travel benefits. I came here because the pay was better. But if I go back to reserve and have to get a crash pad in cvg the money wont be there. Definitely not enough to justify being gone a month at a time.
I don't tell other pilots what to do. Go ahead and apply if you want. Come get you some 42k. But I think most us new hires are packing our bags. Just fyi.
Even the regionals are decades ahead of this place technology wise. Plus they get travel benefits. I came here because the pay was better. But if I go back to reserve and have to get a crash pad in cvg the money wont be there. Definitely not enough to justify being gone a month at a time.
I don't tell other pilots what to do. Go ahead and apply if you want. Come get you some 42k. But I think most us new hires are packing our bags. Just fyi.
I don't know about other new hires, but this one is actively searching and digging for greener pastures. Avoid ACMI at ALL costs.
01-22-2018, 11:15 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 28
I don't know about other new hires, but this one is actively searching and digging for greener pastures. Avoid ACMI at ALL costs.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I wish I would have stayed at the Regionals. I can't do 16 days on at time anymore even with the home basing. I live in a big city, so I would rather commute. I am tired of not being able to work as much or as little as i want and be able to trade or drop/add trips. I don't like not having the option to be able to fly 90 hours a month collecting over time and still be home every week. I want the option to control my pay and not just being on salary because we can't fly over the minimum unless we want to be away from home 27 straight days.
I agree. I wish I would have stayed at the Regionals. I can't do 16 days on at time anymore even with the home basing. I live in a big city, so I would rather commute. I am tired of not being able to work as much or as little as i want and be able to trade or drop/add trips. I don't like not having the option to be able to fly 90 hours a month collecting over time and still be home every week. I want the option to control my pay and not just being on salary because we can't fly over the minimum unless we want to be away from home 27 straight days.
02-22-2018, 11:47 AM
#17
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 3
Just a few thoughts.
ACMI / ABX fail
All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.
Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.
There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:
From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.
There is a 60 day wait for Insurance
The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper
The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.
You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.
There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute
There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.
Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.
Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances
Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.
There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee
Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.
The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.
Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.
Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!
The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.
No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two
The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.
Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.
Other than that it’s not too bad.
ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.
All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.
Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.
There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:
From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.
There is a 60 day wait for Insurance
The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper
The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.
You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.
There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute
There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.
Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.
Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances
Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.
There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee
Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.
The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.
Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.
Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!
The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.
No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two
The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.
Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.
Other than that it’s not too bad.
ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.
02-22-2018, 03:58 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by TheBrightside
ACMI / ABX fail
All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.
Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.
There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:
From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.
There is a 60 day wait for Insurance
The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper
The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.
You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.
There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute
There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.
Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.
Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances
Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.
There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee
Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.
The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.
Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.
Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!
The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.
No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two
The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.
Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.
Other than that it’s not too bad.
ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.
All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.
Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.
There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:
From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.
There is a 60 day wait for Insurance
The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper
The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.
You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.
There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute
There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.
Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.
Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances
Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.
There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee
Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.
The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.
Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.
Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!
The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.
No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two
The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.
Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.
Other than that it’s not too bad.
ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.
No KCM for a non home-based airline, that’s stupid. Even ATI uses KCM.
ATI is better than ABX for all those reasons, and we are hiring because ABX sucks for all those reasons. Not many pilots are leaving ATI. The trips are usually 16 on 12 off and I haven’t been jr assigned in over 8 years.
ABX isn’t even hiring
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
02-22-2018, 05:06 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by TheBrightside
ACMI / ABX fail
All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.
Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.
There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:
From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.
There is a 60 day wait for Insurance
The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper
The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.
You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.
There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute
There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.
Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.
Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances
Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.
There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee
Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.
The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.
Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.
Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!
The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.
No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two
The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.
Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.
Other than that it’s not too bad.
ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.
All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.
Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.
There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:
From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.
There is a 60 day wait for Insurance
The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper
The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.
You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.
There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute
There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.
Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.
Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances
Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.
There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee
Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.
The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.
Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.
Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!
The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.
No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two
The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.
Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.
Other than that it’s not too bad.
ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.
Wow, you better grab a whole box of tissues to dry them tears. And don’t forget to call your Mom so she can make it all better for you.
Just as back in the “old days” people are leaving because the majors are hiring only back then people didn’t feel the need to trash everything and everyone on the way out.
And as far as us old guys not being smart enough to handle the technology why don’t you start by learning to fly so I can get back to my nap.
Last edited by hackerbyday; 02-22-2018 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Spelling error
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