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Old 08-23-2019, 01:36 AM   #441  
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Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B744 CA
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Originally Posted by vroll1800 View Post
Hateful ? I was merely pointing out to potential not so well versed audience that maxjet is an outlier of sorts, and one shouldn't realistically be expected to duplicate mj's K4 career trajectory. I was also indirectly pointing out the folly of touting K4 pay in the same breath as AA (and by extension any other legacy airline) pay.

It appears that my "very good points" weren't well received by MJ. To wit....

"Unhappy with lot in life". Whatever gave you that idea ? See nfd post #432 opener for clarification on this. I'm not unhappy with my lot in life, thank you for your unsolicited advice. Complaints ? My only "complaint" today was that I got too wet on my evening swim. Does pointing out your outlier status (and thus perspective/outlook) plus the folly of AA pay comparisons (point #4) be considered childish ?

Anyway, sorry if I mistook you for the K4 pilot who made $500K. Making that kind of $$ with K4 would require a humongous amount of open flying plus premium multipliers. As in over 1800 hours of pay credit, a lot considering that base guarantee is 804 hours per year , and K4 lacks duty/trip rigs, and MPDP. (except maybe on extra days for later). That needs to be fully understood by prospective pilot, plus cyclical nature of Acmi business where contracts come and go. I know it's feast now, with some posters making over 80 hrs/month on regular line. Then there's some 767 folks only making 64 hr. base guarantee. Feast one moment, famine another. Will one feel the same about their lot at 64 hrs vs 80 hrs.

We can go back and forth on pay comparisons until the cows come home, but the ultimate test of how good a company really is would be my point #4. Namely, in today's historically good free market pilot hiring environment, the airline that gets the most voluntary resignations from peer group can truly be considered the best. Ditto for having the most new hires that stick around several years later. The story of 57 yo AA pilot coming to K4 has piqued my curiosity. I'm genuinely interested in his story, but that's for another thread or day. What is that, 1 out ~15,000 AA pilots ? Another outlier, but not entirely unknown. Well set pilots do retire early to "do something different". Indeed , one AS pilot who contributed articles to various aviation publications retired early to take a CV580 job on some Pacific island several years ago.

My question #4 still stands. If K4 earning/QOL balance is as good as maxjet portrays it to be, shouldn't we see several legacy pilots putting their apps in at K4 ?
Its hard for an outsider to understand any airline they dont work for, hard to understand the QOL, hard to understand the pay

The 767 guys generally get guarantee each month however Iím not on that equipment so I really dont understand it

The 747 guys break 64 every month, however we are a bit fat on FOís at the moment but that will change over the coming months

For myself a mid seniority CA, this year I have averaged about 90-95 pay hours per month. That is not unusual. We average I would say 20 hrs soft pay per month, some more. Firstly we have some very long trips which add up quickly, such as KCVG-RJGG 30 hr layover with an R2 credit then go RJGG-VHHH-PANC thats about 27 hrs flying and 31 hrs pay in under 4 days

Second we are paid flight pay to commute from our homes and back and for any deadhead or positioning while at work

Third we are paid 4 hrs flt pay for each reserve status we perform sometimes for as little as 4 hrs of duty, we recently signed an MOU with the company that increases the frequency of when they must be assinged

Fourth, if a person wants to there are several ways to make scheduling give you overtime by the way that you bid. Its not hard at all to arrange 4-6 days of OT if thats what you want to do just by how you bid. We are paid 150% flt pay for OT hrs, if you bid like this 125hrs pay or more can be had.

All that being said on the 74 at least its not hard to be paid 1000 hrs per year and we have a lot of guys who sell back their vacation for another 84 hrs

There is still a lot of movement here, 80 777 bids just came out and there will be more in the future on all 3 fleets

We have nearly 700 on the list now and lose 3-4 per month to the majors, we will have over 1000 pilots soon

So is everthing perfect here? no of course not, we are opening negotiations a year early with the goal of closing out the last few big items that are lacking in our CBA, I believe that will be achieved.

I hope this helps a little for those who dont work here
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:26 AM   #442  
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Originally Posted by Lockheed View Post
Its hard for an outsider to understand any airline they dont work for, hard to understand the QOL, hard to understand the pay

The 767 guys generally get guarantee each month however Iím not on that equipment so I really dont understand it

The 747 guys break 64 every month, however we are a bit fat on FOís at the moment but that will change over the coming months

For myself a mid seniority CA, this year I have averaged about 90-95 pay hours per month. That is not unusual. We average I would say 20 hrs soft pay per month, some more. Firstly we have some very long trips which add up quickly, such as KCVG-RJGG 30 hr layover with an R2 credit then go RJGG-VHHH-PANC thats about 27 hrs flying and 31 hrs pay in under 4 days

Second we are paid flight pay to commute from our homes and back and for any deadhead or positioning while at work

Third we are paid 4 hrs flt pay for each reserve status we perform sometimes for as little as 4 hrs of duty, we recently signed an MOU with the company that increases the frequency of when they must be assinged

Fourth, if a person wants to there are several ways to make scheduling give you overtime by the way that you bid. Its not hard at all to arrange 4-6 days of OT if thats what you want to do just by how you bid. We are paid 150% flt pay for OT hrs, if you bid like this 125hrs pay or more can be had.

All that being said on the 74 at least its not hard to be paid 1000 hrs per year and we have a lot of guys who sell back their vacation for another 84 hrs

There is still a lot of movement here, 80 777 bids just came out and there will be more in the future on all 3 fleets

We have nearly 700 on the list now and lose 3-4 per month to the majors, we will have over 1000 pilots soon

So is everthing perfect here? no of course not, we are opening negotiations a year early with the goal of closing out the last few big items that are lacking in our CBA, I believe that will be achieved.

I hope this helps a little for those who dont work here
That was an excellent and realistic post....as bad as ABX is because we are still on a concessionary contract one needs to remember what a senior pilot vs a junior pilot makes. We have half the seniority list 300k to 350k adding soft pay and VBB...when the D6 days kick in (now) its double pay...as long as it works for you it's all good. Meanwhile the junior guys end up at base pay sitting reserve..that's called junior...in the end base pay is the only guarantee.
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:17 PM   #443  
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As you know, I can't think of any pilot that enjoys the interview process, new hire training, and being junior. Pax pilots who've never flown cargo before will not want to leave a job they feel comfortable at to start over, for an unknown pilot lifestyle. <snip>
I will say he was former TWA who was furloughed and came to Kalitta during that time.
.
No steak for orka or Lockheed ! Whip's wager specified "that wasn't fired, forced to resign, or furloughed." My Q4 specified "gainfully employed."

Thanks for reply, NL3. It's not my desire to pry too much, so I'll let the story rest from my end. As for your opening paragraph, I've seen several APC threads started that posed the question of whether someone should leave SW, or big 3 legacy for purple or brown. So going pax to cargo an option for some.

Kudos to Lockheed for his post. That cleared up some things. Here I go with more thread drift, but questions remain about this R2 thing on layovers. Extra soft pay seems nice, but would one be glued to the phone/ crew track web monitoring during layover ? If so, I'm not sure I'd like not knowing when I could sleep, or visit my favorite museums and libraries. Cheers.
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:25 PM   #444  
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Originally Posted by vroll1800 View Post
No steak for orka or Lockheed ! Whip's wager specified "that wasn't fired, forced to resign, or furloughed." My Q4 specified "gainfully employed."

Thanks for reply, NL3. It's not my desire to pry too much, so I'll let the story rest from my end. As for your opening paragraph, I've seen several APC threads started that posed the question of whether someone should leave SW, or big 3 legacy for purple or brown. So going pax to cargo an option for some.

Kudos to Lockheed for his post. That cleared up some things. Here I go with more thread drift, but questions remain about this R2 thing on layovers. Extra soft pay seems nice, but would one be glued to the phone/ crew track web monitoring during layover ? If so, I'm not sure I'd like not knowing when I could sleep, or visit my favorite museums and libraries. Cheers.
It's nice to have a friendly conversation back and forth here for a change vs another thread on here

you misunderstood a little - the guy we are referring to was furloughed from AA after the TWA merger - he came to K4 for maybe 10 years and then took the recall to AA - he was there maybe 2.5 years when he had had enough - retired from AA came back to K4 as a new hire - he's a good dude - have known him for 35 years

Rare please!
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:28 PM   #445  
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Medium well plz
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:57 AM   #446  
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[QUOTE=nitefr8dog;2874894]That was an excellent and realistic post....as bad as ABX is because we are still on a concessionary contract one needs to remember what a senior pilot vs a junior pilot makes. We have half the seniority list 300k to 350k adding soft pay and VBB...when the D6 days kick in (now) its double pay...as long as it works for you it's all good. Meanwhile the junior guys end up at base pay sitting reserve..that's called junior...in the end base pay is

False it's not 2016 any longer.
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:16 PM   #447  
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[QUOTE=ACMItrash;2875454]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog View Post
That was an excellent and realistic post....as bad as ABX is because we are still on a concessionary contract one needs to remember what a senior pilot vs a junior pilot makes. We have half the seniority list 300k to 350k adding soft pay and VBB...when the D6 days kick in (now) its double pay...as long as it works for you it's all good. Meanwhile the junior guys end up at base pay sitting reserve..that's called junior...in the end base pay is

False it's not 2016 any longer.
Or 2017...nothing gets by you. Might be false for you...everyone's numbers are different. I made more in 2017. What really counts are my w2's for the last 10 yrs...the numbers don't lie. On a concessionary contract to boot!

Last edited by nitefr8dog; 08-24-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:49 AM   #448  
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Originally Posted by JetRage View Post
Im not sure mgmt here even realized how far behind this place really is. Were bidding on paper. Were flying planes with no CPDLC, no ACARS, paper jepps (although I think they're working on that), no coffee makers and often times no food.

Even the regionals are decades ahead of this place technology wise. Plus they get travel benefits. I came here because the pay was better. But if I go back to reserve and have to get a crash pad in cvg the money wont be there. Definitely not enough to justify being gone a month at a time.

I don't tell other pilots what to do. Go ahead and apply if you want. Come get you some 42k. But I think most us new hires are packing our bags. Just fyi.
You guys are gone a month at a time? For real?
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:37 AM   #449  
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You guys are gone a month at a time? For real?
I don't believe JetRage is at ATI. Our Schedules are built 16 on 12 off with Home Basing.
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Old 09-03-2019, 08:58 PM   #450  
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Iíll take ACMI any day over a legacy. I get a two week vacation every month. Itís perfect for me and my family. Been doing this schedule for a decade, and wonít ever do anything else.
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