Originally Posted by redmanchew (Post 2507015)

You mean sit airport reserve for 12 hrs only to be extended an extra 3 hrs and come back and do it again the next day, and the next day, and the next day...oh and only get paid for 5 hrs.


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Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 2507058)

You're kidding? Even at a lowly regional they can only put 8 hours of ready reserve per day on us. Yikes...

Originally Posted by McBoeingBus (Post 2507101)

121 vs 117. Thanks a lot OMB and BHO.

Originally Posted by JetRage (Post 2507573)

Im not sure mgmt here even realized how far behind this place really is. Were bidding on paper. Were flying planes with no CPDLC, no ACARS, paper jepps (although I think they're working on that), no coffee makers and often times no food.

Even the regionals are decades ahead of this place technology wise. Plus they get travel benefits. I came here because the pay was better. But if I go back to reserve and have to get a crash pad in cvg the money wont be there. Definitely not enough to justify being gone a month at a time.

I don't tell other pilots what to do. Go ahead and apply if you want. Come get you some 42k. But I think most us new hires are packing our bags. Just fyi.

Originally Posted by myoface (Post 2507637)

Not having to stay at the five towns at JFK. Wait...is that one reason or 5 reasons?

Originally Posted by myoface (Post 2507637)

Not having to stay at the five towns at JFK. Wait...is that one reason or 5 reasons?

Originally Posted by JetRage (Post 2507573)

Im not sure mgmt here even realized how far behind this place really is. Were bidding on paper. Were flying planes with no CPDLC, no ACARS, paper jepps (although I think they're working on that), no coffee makers and often times no food.

Even the regionals are decades ahead of this place technology wise. Plus they get travel benefits. I came here because the pay was better. But if I go back to reserve and have to get a crash pad in cvg the money wont be there. Definitely not enough to justify being gone a month at a time.

I don't tell other pilots what to do. Go ahead and apply if you want. Come get you some 42k. But I think most us new hires are packing our bags. Just fyi.

Originally Posted by TheBrightside (Post 2534659)

ACMI / ABX fail



All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.



Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.



There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:



From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.



There is a 60 day wait for Insurance



The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper



The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.



You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.



There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute



There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.



Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.



Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances



Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.



There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee



Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.



The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.



Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.



Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!



The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.



No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two



The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.



Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.



Other than that it’s not too bad.



ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.

Originally Posted by TheBrightside (Post 2534659)

ACMI / ABX fail

All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.

Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.

There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:

From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.

There is a 60 day wait for Insurance

The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper

The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.

You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.

There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute

There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.

Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.

Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances

Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.

There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee

Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.

The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.

Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.

Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!

The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.

No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two

The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.

Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.

Other than that it’s not too bad.

ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.

Originally Posted by 727CA (Post 2534854)

ABX isn’t even hiring

Originally Posted by TheBrightside (Post 2534659)

ACMI / ABX fail

All the ACMI carriers are so far behind the rest of the industry and there appears there is no effort to change it from managements perspective. They also refuse to educate themselves on the amount of hiring that is taking place over the next several years. All the majors are hiring stocking up on pilots and cornering the market by making their pilots the highest paid. They are also going to flight schools and securing pilots and giving pilots seniority numbers from their regionals.

Even though all the speculation with Amazon is enticing, here is the problem. Even with a new contract, it’s still going to be years behind many carriers that have much better pay, quality of life, benefits and retirement.

There is a reason almost half of new hires at ABX quit before their first year is up. Everyone has their own choice on what’s acceptable to them; however, maybe this will keep some people from making a mistake and taking a job in the ACMI world by understanding what ABX does not have:

From the beginning you will pay for your own hotel during training (at least for 3 weeks)/ If you’re lucky you may get sims somewhere other than ILN, but that was only 1 class last year.

There is a 60 day wait for Insurance

The regional type whipsaw is still in full force - fly for less or someone else will do it cheaper

The Jr manning is ridiculous. Pilots at ABX can never count on going home after a 17 or 8 day trip. They can't plan to staff accordingly because so many pilots quit or don't come here. Be prepared to be required work on your days off. They even ask you in the interview how you feel about jr manning. Be sure and prepare your family that you will be gone 2 or more weeks at a time.

You get no CASS Jumpseat during training, only the system and training takes forever. You’re basically punished for taking the job in not being able to get home. It’s training for the weeks on end that you’re going to be away from your family when online.

There is no KCM so plan on going through security when you deadhead and commute

There is no 117 rest rules. Be ready to fly day then night with very little protections.

Not all flights are catered so have fun packing food and you only get frozen water in the winter or in the summer water that is 100 degrees. Don’t worry they don’t put any ice on the plane for you.

Hotels – they tell the hotel don’t give you free breakfast or points under any circumstances

Reserve- it’s the most egregious reserve system in the airline industry. No long call, a terrible way for assignment in a FIFO, no auto release, the ready reserve- no limits be prepared to sit up to 12 hours and don’t even think of getting released to go eat.

There are no trip, duty rigs or min day credit, no 75 hour monthly guarantee

Flex days; these are a nice nugget that is essentially reserve for line holders.

The bidding is still paper line bidding. That’s right, someone else decides what days off and type of trips you want to fly. There is very little chance of PBS here because the senior guys don’t understand how systems have changed and are better and the company would want complete control of it just like they want to control all the rest of scheduling.

Trades have to be for equal days and equitable so forget trading for more days off. Speaking of days off you can never “get senior” and get more days off.

Did I mention Junior man? The Company feels they own everyone to use then at their will on their days off. You can never plan on going home at the end of your trip. You actually have to call and ask if there are any messages!!!!!!!

The paper work and scoring. Yes, they still score paper flight plans and turn in paper work like 1985, and then they audit it and send it to you like you’re in 4th grade and tell you to fix any errors.

No EFB- maybe sometime in the next year or two

The commute clause is less than industry standard. You have to use 2 flights and they have to get there 5 hours before your duty in.

Bottom line this place is stuck in 1980 and management absolutely hates pilots.

Other than that it’s not too bad.

ATI I hear is even worse for scheduling only 1 16 day schedule and vacation can be on your days off.

Originally Posted by 727CA (Post 2534854)

No KCM for a non home-based airline, that’s stupid. Even ATI uses KCM.
ATI is better than ABX for all those reasons, and we are hiring because ABX sucks for all those reasons. Not many pilots are leaving ATI. The trips are usually 16 on 12 off and I haven’t been jr assigned in over 8 years.
ABX isn’t even hiring


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Originally Posted by Jurassic Jet (Post 2534942)

We’ve hired 12 in the past 6 weeks.

Originally Posted by maxjet (Post 2535032)

The reason ABX hasn’t hired is because they are not willing to take a concessionary contract. Just like when they refused the DHL 737’s because the rates sucked. Please do not as an ATI pilot, come on here and bash ABX for sticking to their principals. They have and will have my respect.

Originally Posted by maxjet (Post 2535032)

The reason ABX hasn’t hired is because they are not willing to take a concessionary contract. Just like when they refused the DHL 737’s because the rates sucked. Please do not as an ATI pilot, come on here and bash ABX for sticking to their principals. They have and will have my respect.

Originally Posted by hackerbyday (Post 2534901)

Wow, you better grab a whole box of tissues to dry them tears. And don’t forget to call your Mom so she can make it all better for you.

Just as back in the “old days” people are leaving because the majors are hiring only back then people didn’t feel the need to trash everything and everyone on the way out.

And as far as us old guys not being smart enough to handle the technology why don’t you start by learning to fly so I can get back to my nap.

Originally Posted by maxjet (Post 2535032)

The reason ABX hasn’t hired is because they are not willing to take a concessionary contract. Just like when they refused the DHL 737’s because the rates sucked. Please do not as an ATI pilot, come on here and bash ABX for sticking to their principals. They have and will have my respect.

Originally Posted by maxjet (Post 2535032)

Just like when they (ABX) refused the DHL 737’s because the rates sucked. Please do not as an ATI pilot, come on here and bash ABX for sticking to their principals. They have and will have my respect.

Originally Posted by myoface (Post 2507637)

Not having to stay at the five towns at JFK. Wait...is that one reason or 5 reasons?

Originally Posted by hackerbyday (Post 2534901)

Wow, you better grab a whole box of tissues to dry them tears. And don’t forget to call your Mom so she can make it all better for you.

Just as back in the “old days” people are leaving because the majors are hiring only back then people didn’t feel the need to trash everything and everyone on the way out.

And as far as us old guys not being smart enough to handle the technology why don’t you start by learning to fly so I can get back to my nap.

Originally Posted by boiler (Post 2535255)

I have no issues with the captains that I fly with here, but come on man...you’ve got to admit that this place is awful and everyone has the attitude of “this is how we’ve always done it” regardless of how antiquated the practice may be. You senior guys ought to listen to us newer guys because we know how the rest of the industry works. I get paid better here than I did in the right seat at a regional and I fly a bigger airplane, but beyond that our work rules are so much worse than any regional pilot could dream of.

Originally Posted by hackerbyday (Post 2534901)

Wow, you better grab a whole box of tissues to dry them tears. And don’t forget to call your Mom so she can make it all better for you.

Just as back in the “old days” people are leaving because the majors are hiring only back then people didn’t feel the need to trash everything and everyone on the way out.

And as far as us old guys not being smart enough to handle the technology why don’t you start by learning to fly so I can get back to my nap.

Originally Posted by nitefr8dog (Post 2535469)

A lot of free duel!

Originally Posted by boiler (Post 2535255)

I have no issues with the captains that I fly with here, but come on man...you’ve got to admit that this place is awful and everyone has the attitude of “this is how we’ve always done it” regardless of how antiquated the practice may be. You senior guys ought to listen to us newer guys because we know how the rest of the industry works. I get paid better here than I did in the right seat at a regional and I fly a bigger airplane, but beyond that our work rules are so much worse than any regional pilot could dream of.

Then you’ve got Soaper coming in and harassing crews demanding concessions on our already ****ty work rules until finally a couple 151ers stepped up and put him in his place last week. Good thing someone filed a harassment claim with HR and called the feds for taking away time from FAA required training!


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Originally Posted by Reactivity (Post 2535607)

Pistols at 50 paces at sunrise?

Originally Posted by hackerbyday (Post 2535839)

Dang I didn’t know you guys are the Mesiah here to save us from our ignorant cornfield ways. We don’t know how the industry works? Well its obvious you had no idea what ACMI flying is all about, or did you just not do your research before coming here. All the whining about no food and warm water you’ll never become a freight dog just some little pampered poodle.
And then to say a couple 151rs put Soaper in his place by walking out on him instead of standing up and being the adult in the room and taking it to him. But no coming on here to air your grievances that takes a pair.

Originally Posted by boiler (Post 2536360)

One of those 151ers argued with him for an hour (and yes, the other walked out at some point in there). Apparently it ended when he told Soaper that we will never take concessions, he doesn’t intimidate us, and we do not want to talk to him in class ever again. Sounds like he held his ground pretty well.

I never said we were the messiah. I just said you would do well to value our opinions since we have all recently come from various parts of the industry. Many of the senior guys have endured this nonsense so long that it doesn’t register how lousy our work rules are. I don’t fault you for that. I’m just saying that we should have clear goals on what we want for our QOL if we ever get a contract to vote on.

I’m really not sure why you’re irritated with us in this thread. Most of the senior guys I’ve talked with about these things agree that this is a sketchy cornfield operation that is frankly kind of embarrassing, but for some reason you’re taking it personally that we are calling a spade a spade. It’s not personal at all...


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Originally Posted by boiler (Post 2535255)

I have no issues with the captains that I fly with here, but come on man...you’ve got to admit that this place is awful and everyone has the attitude of “this is how we’ve always done it” regardless of how antiquated the practice may be. You senior guys ought to listen to us newer guys because we know how the rest of the industry works. I get paid better here than I did in the right seat at a regional and I fly a bigger airplane, but beyond that our work rules are so much worse than any regional pilot could dream of.

Then you’ve got Soaper coming in and harassing crews demanding concessions on our already ****ty work rules until finally a couple 151ers stepped up and put him in his place last week. Good thing someone filed a harassment claim with HR and called the feds for taking away time from FAA required training!


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Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck (Post 2536525)

Harassment claim? Can you elaborate?