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Old 08-15-2019, 05:41 AM   #61  
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Originally Posted by Buckinfantastic View Post
Was this part 91? If not, duty hours are absolutely not "suggestive". You have scheduled vs. actual, which does allow you to go over the duty and block limits when the disruption was beyond the control of the company but that does not mean 8 hours past the original duty limit, which is usually 18 for part 91.

The company had ample opportunity to pull you and put you into rest, so that would not meet the definition of "beyond the control of the company".

Even if it was 91- here are some relevant passages from Part 91.1057:

"(d) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a program manager requires of a crewmember and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at which he or she is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which he or she was relieved from duty to return to his or her home station, is not considered part of a rest period."

So the scheduler could not legally consider your time spent getting to the origination point for the trip as rest and the time that you reported to the original deadhead would be your duty start time.

"(h) A flight crewmember may decline a flight assignment if, in the flight crewmember's determination, to do so would not be consistent with the standard of safe operation required under this subpart, this part, and applicable provisions of this title."

You have some responsibility here too. This was not safe and the assignment should have been declined.

I'd speak to the CPO when you get back- that's a potential voluntary disclosure to the FAA in addition to being completely reckless on the part of everyone involved.

Surely you have a contract that specifies your duty limit is fewer than 26 hours. If you don't, you need to get out of there yesterday.

If what you're saying is true, this is a big deal and NO ONE should be taking it lightly.
Augmented supplemental 121 ops are different than 117 or 91. 20+ duty days are common.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:50 AM   #62  
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...and agreed. Hours are not suggestive however amongst some oldtimer ACMI guys this attitude still seem to exist. Coming from a us passenger carrier to an ACMI carrier the difference in emphasis on duty regs is noticeable.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:16 AM   #63  
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Why wouldn't it be?
1) You fly for a company where David Soaper is CEO.
2) You fly for a company that files lawsuits against it's own pilots.
3) You fly for most any other ACMI other than K4 or Omni.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:02 PM   #64  
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1) You fly for a company where David Soaper is CEO.
2) You fly for a company that files lawsuits against it's own pilots.
3) You fly for most any other ACMI other than K4 or Omni.
I fly for K4, others have said they equally happy at Omni, and I have a friend that is equally happy at Western Global.
What I've noticed, people that have come from a regional are almost universally happy at Kalitta once they are flying the line. The military guys who've never flown passengers and Kalitta is their first exposure to the 121 world, are able to find more faults than the regional guys. What a regional guy will chalk up to being a minor thing almost not worth discussing, the military guys are threatening to send out resumes. I am thankful I had the experience at a regional prior so I have something to compare it to.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:31 PM   #65  
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Originally Posted by Buckinfantastic View Post
Was this part 91? If not, duty hours are absolutely not "suggestive". You have scheduled vs. actual, which does allow you to go over the duty and block limits when the disruption was beyond the control of the company but that does not mean 8 hours past the original duty limit, which is usually 18 for part 91.



The company had ample opportunity to pull you and put you into rest, so that would not meet the definition of "beyond the control of the company".



Even if it was 91- here are some relevant passages from Part 91.1057:



"(d) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a program manager requires of a crewmember and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at which he or she is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which he or she was relieved from duty to return to his or her home station, is not considered part of a rest period."



So the scheduler could not legally consider your time spent getting to the origination point for the trip as rest and the time that you reported to the original deadhead would be your duty start time.



"(h) A flight crewmember may decline a flight assignment if, in the flight crewmember's determination, to do so would not be consistent with the standard of safe operation required under this subpart, this part, and applicable provisions of this title."



You have some responsibility here too. This was not safe and the assignment should have been declined.



I'd speak to the CPO when you get back- that's a potential voluntary disclosure to the FAA in addition to being completely reckless on the part of everyone involved.



Surely you have a contract that specifies your duty limit is fewer than 26 hours. If you don't, you need to get out of there yesterday.



If what you're saying is true, this is a big deal and NO ONE should be taking it lightly.


Isn’t that 91K?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:56 PM   #66  
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I fly for K4, others have said they equally happy at Omni, and I have a friend that is equally happy at Western Global.
What I've noticed, people that have come from a regional are almost universally happy at Kalitta once they are flying the line. The military guys who've never flown passengers and Kalitta is their first exposure to the 121 world, are able to find more faults than the regional guys. What a regional guy will chalk up to being a minor thing almost not worth discussing, the military guys are threatening to send out resumes. I am thankful I had the experience at a regional prior so I have something to compare it to.
There’s SOME military guys (Air Force tanker guys usually) that aren’t happy unless they’re at Delta or Fed Ex. They probably wouldn’t be happy there either. It’s like they’re looking for reasons not to fly. That’s doesnt necessarily reflect how things are at Kalitta or Omni, but rather a reflection on certain individuals.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:26 PM   #67  
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There’s SOME military guys (Air Force tanker guys usually) that aren’t happy unless they’re at Delta or Fed Ex. They probably wouldn’t be happy there either. It’s like they’re looking for reasons not to fly. That’s doesnt necessarily reflect how things are at Kalitta or Omni, but rather a reflection on certain individuals.
I’ve met lots of tanker guys at K4. Working here is a huge step up from the USAF.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:34 PM   #68  
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All the military guys at K4 are a great bunch to fly with. With some I offer stories from the regionals so they can have some perspective from the pax world.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:46 AM   #69  
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Originally Posted by Aeirum View Post
...and agreed. Hours are not suggestive however amongst some oldtimer ACMI guys this attitude still seem to exist. Coming from a us passenger carrier to an ACMI carrier the difference in emphasis on duty regs is noticeable.
Ah, I see what you're saying with the augmented crew situation. That's still ridiculous though. It sounds like you were on IOE or a check ride? That seems like an unfair situation to put you in, training wise.

Maybe your old pax carrier would have you back? This new place sounds like a real dud.

Seriously, stay safe out there.
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Old 09-04-2019, 06:46 PM   #70  
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Originally Posted by goinaround View Post
I’ve met lots of tanker guys at K4. Working here is a huge step up from the USAF.
Air Force tanker guy working at K4: its been great. Solid pay, terrific people, and the chance to actually see the world (as opposed to extended stays in the finest garden spots in Afghanistan and around the Arabian gulf).

Biggest complaint: Those gawdawful tomato and cheese sandwiches from Istanbul. When the contract opens, that needs to be addressed immediately!

And you know you’re ACMI if you’ve ever sheepishly asked the lady at the front desk which room you’re in...two days after you already checked in.

Last edited by CrewDog98; 09-04-2019 at 07:04 PM.
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