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Old 07-03-2018, 11:47 AM   #81  
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Originally Posted by Diesel8 View Post
It's not that simple, using your rationale Kalitta should have gone before Southern. They ran Classics longer than Southern.

No, your wrong. some companies are airlines, others are entities to be sold off. That would be more what the Neff model is about. Bet he does the same thing with Western Global.

Oh, and Cargo 360 was more of a money pit than Southern ever was. It was run by Delta pilots. Wanna see an airline go down the tubes? Let pilots run it. Lots of defunct pilot run airlines, thats' reality.
Not true. Cargo 360 had a lucrative Korean Air Contract that kept their 3 Freighter flying in excess of 200 hours a month. All CM's at Cargo 360 averaged flying around 70-80 hours a month. Cargo 360 was purchased by Oak Hills who then put in an order for 5 777's and then bought Southern and decided to combine the 2 carriers under the Southern certificate ran by the Neff's. -This is all fact.
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:13 PM   #82  
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I would disagree, having worked for Connie also..Connie is the master craftsman at making one mans junk another mans treasure. When we were flying those turd box DC-8-52s thru -63s Connie made a lot of money and outlasted all the Adhoc DC-8 operators of the era and the same with the classics...Ned Wallace was the driving force behind Connie getting rid of the Classics and it wasnt cause they werent making money.... its called a paradigm shift .. ask the Zoners if you dont understand..a CEO not willing to adjust.. until it was way too late. By the way K4 is a billion dollar in revenue privately held company... nobody to answer to but himself!!! And to note 360 had deep pockets and David Greenberg former Delta CEO as their leader..they def could have went places without SA INC in my honest opinion.
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:23 AM   #83  
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And to note 360 had deep pockets and David Greenberg former Delta CEO as their leader..they def could have went places without SA INC in my honest opinion.
I don't know who your disagreeing with, but Greenberg was never the CEO of Delta Airlines. Prior to being the owner of Cargo 360, he was the Director of Safety for Korean Air, before that the Director of Safety for some Airline in California. Prior to that he worked at Delta in some capacity I heard the story a long time ago but forget...

If you worked at Kalitta, you are hardly the go to expert on Cargo 360.

Try again. This time be specific on what you are disagreeing to, try using the quote icon...
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:50 AM   #84  
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Im disagreeing with you! Ok I stand corrected..Greenberg was VP of Flt Ops for Delta...I never proclaimed to be an expert on 360. Everything I stated on 360 was true except Greensberg’s position at Delta. I am a long time friend of the VP of Flt Ops at 360 and even worked with him and DG on another start up project.. but there always has to be the one guy in the room and that would be you! Most guys that came through in the 80s and 90s in Non Sked knows the history of all these companies... it wasnt top secret!
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:02 AM   #85  
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Not true. Cargo 360 had a lucrative Korean Air Contract that kept their 3 Freighter flying in excess of 200 hours a month. All CM's at Cargo 360 averaged flying around 70-80 hours a month. Cargo 360 was purchased by Oak Hills who then put in an order for 5 777's and then bought Southern and decided to combine the 2 carriers under the Southern certificate ran by the Neff's. -This is all fact.
Southern had a contract with Korean before Cargo 360 was even in existence. They even flew Cargo 360's contract for close to 6 months while they were stumbling on their proving runs.

Cargo 360 had no ACMI diversity, just the Korean contract which was due to the ties that management had with Korean. Delta was brought in to Korean to address safety issues. The ties were so strong that displaced Korean Air FE's flew their original Korean Pratt powered Classics. That was part of the deal that they had. Those engineers were later picked up by Southern as part of the merger.

In the ACMI world, movement from the Classics to the -400 was precipitated more by regulatory changes that had to do with aging airframes & wiring. Connie was able to run them longer than anyone else because of his resourcefulness. In addition to that, fuel economy and falling -400 lease rates were a factor as well.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:35 PM   #86  
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With Southern going to Atlas work rules will Southern guys still be home based? Will Southern get business class deadheads? What about Business class for commuting? 17 day work schedules?
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:40 PM   #87  
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Originally Posted by CA Deplorable View Post
I would disagree, having worked for Connie also..Connie is the master craftsman at making one mans junk another mans treasure. When we were flying those turd box DC-8-52s thru -63s Connie made a lot of money and outlasted all the Adhoc DC-8 operators of the era and the same with the classics...Ned Wallace was the driving force behind Connie getting rid of the Classics and it wasnt cause they werent making money.... its called a paradigm shift .. ask the Zoners if you dont understand..a CEO not willing to adjust.. until it was way too late. By the way K4 is a billion dollar in revenue privately held company... nobody to answer to but himself!!! And to note 360 had deep pockets and David Greenberg former Delta CEO as their leader..they def could have went places without SA INC in my honest opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Deplorable View Post
Im disagreeing with you! Ok I stand corrected..Greenberg was VP of Flt Ops for Delta...I never proclaimed to be an expert on 360. Everything I stated on 360 was true except Greensberg’s position at Delta.
But the one and ONLY thing you said about Cargo 360 is the Greenberg statement. Then you ramble out K2, have no idea what you are discussing here.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:22 PM   #88  
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With Southern going to Atlas work rules will Southern guys still be home based? Will Southern get business class deadheads? What about Business class for commuting? 17 day work schedules?
I haven't read the proposal but Atlas doesn't have Home Basing so if they got all of our rules then no they wouldn't have Home Basing anymore. Business class deadheading is for international flights or a duty day that exceeds 16 hours. So no business class for commuting unless you're paying for an upgrade.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:23 PM   #89  
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But the one and ONLY thing you said about Cargo 360 is the Greenberg statement. Then you ramble out K2, have no idea what you are discussing here.
You are truly the dumbest person on this forum. The crazy part is I know you. I guess the part about Oak Hill escaped you.. but typical DB fashion
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:27 AM   #90  
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You are truly the dumbest person on this forum. The crazy part is I know you. I guess the part about Oak Hill escaped you.. but typical DB fashion
OK, I think I see what is going on here. You are not disagreeing with me but with Diesel8.

And for the record, your spot on with your remarks about Oak Hills and Southern and Cargo 360 from the previous page. It was Diesel8 who is disagreeing with your post.

But you are absolutely right, I am the dumbest person on this forum.
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