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Cargo job/lifestyle questions

Old 05-07-2018, 06:32 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by vroll1800 View Post
No troll bait. Just trying to illustrate one difference between ULCC and ACMI ops for the benefit of the OP.

In this case, the crew* and the airplane were the only one for many miles (and hours flight time) around. Versus a similar event happening at , say, Jet Blue out of JFK. In that case, they'd either get a new aircraft to continue to original destination, or flight would be canceled, passengers booked on another flight. Flight crew sent home with pay, or reassigned to another sequence with equal or greater pay.

ACMI, you're often IT effectively chained to the airplane. The followup questions are more interesting. Did company say to crew upon landing "OK, fellas, go to hotel, get 16 hours rest, and report back to continue flight." OR was crew strung along for several hours, and upon realizing that problem wouldn't be solved so quickly sent crew to hotel to get minimum rest prior to continuing flight ?
Even if the later scenario didn't actually happen, prospective Acmi pilots can expect such a scenario to happen several times. "Plane will be fixed in 2 hours" ranks up there with "check is in the mail" for truthfulness and accuracy.

I brought up the 24 hour question, because the 24 hour issue was repeatedly cited as one of K4 pilot's major beef with 1224 leadership. Might Bishkek be one of those places where K4 crew might want to exercise the 24 hour double crew duty day to "get out of Dodge ?"

Lastly, I didn't post avherald link just to pick on K4. It just happened to be the most immediate incident available to illustrate the potential differences in duty days between Acmi carriers, and ULCC hub and spoke ops.

* I'm guessing if a different crew flew the aircraft into HKG that they were not available to fly delayed leg because they were in crew rest, or they already had (or were slated to) commercial home or somewhere else for another assignment.
What exactly is your point here? Could the worse case senecio you are proposing happen? Yes it happens at times. You go to the hotel and get legal rest. Isn’t that what legal rest is for?

Every type of operation has its problems that irritate each of us. For me as a pax pilot it was having to leave late, catch up to ontime and then, have to do a plane swap at the hub, with an aircraft that was late. That was way more tiring to me than having the company tell me to go back to the hotel for 10 or 11 hours of rest.

I have never flown better aircraft in regards to maintenance in my career. Our FME’s “own” that airplane and take pride in its performance.

When I arrived at Kalitta in 2011, it was my final surrender to the “dark side”. I had friends that had worked there from 2007 and had asked me to come over. I let posters like you, convince me that ACMI was a horrible end to a career. I was a moron for allowing an internet website to influence my career choice. I should have come in 2007. K4 was the best kept secret in aviation back then. Now that they pay a living wage it is even better.

However, if you are: a whiner, a person who cannot be flexible about changes in their schedule when at work, have lots of family issues that need you at home, have been an FO your entire career and cannot make the leap to being in charge when you fly, please stay away. You will not be happy with us and we will not be happy with you.

Not everyone is cut out to be an international ACMI Pilot. It is the most difficult flying you can experience. Not because of the destination or the company. Because you never get to fly. After a month off you are up to bat. A little cross wind of 10 kts, bit of gust on arrival, you with little confidence in your skills. What happens next? Instead of letting the aircraft autoland, you decide to leave the AP an AT on until you break out at 300 feet. You kick them off, forgetting that the rudder was being trimmed by the multiple autopilots. Wing drops, you correct, forget to flair and turn off the AT, you can write the rest.

You will be at the top of your flying skills after IOE. It is all down hill until you upgrade.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:53 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by maxjet View Post

However, if you are: a whiner, a person who cannot be flexible about changes in their schedule when at work, have lots of family issues that need you at home, have been an FO your entire career and cannot make the leap to being in charge when you fly, please stay away. You will not be happy with us and we will not be happy with you.
.
I'm not sure if that paragraph was directed at me. If it was, thanks for making insinuations about me without knowing me, or checking my profile. (The later would have dispelled at least one of your notions.)

Furthermore, I don't think prioritizing the innate human desire to exercise a certain degree of control over one's life makes one a crybaby, or prima donna.
OP mentioned that he found cargo airlines (K4 and 5Y in particular wrt this thread) to be interesting. Besides the boilerplate cargo ops vs passenger ops, he may have found home basing, and a long singular stretch off to be appealing. The later singular stretch off is the velvet glove.

The 16 to 17 day stretch on the road is the "hammer." Your A#$ belongs to company during that stretch. So, you're "ON" 1-16 June, but would like to have the 11th- 16th off and pick up 6 days somewhere else. Good luck with that. ACMI schedules are made with the assumption that you will be on that 16 day stretch.
Contrast this with many ULCC posts on tremendous flexibility, and ability to trade, pick up , and drop trips.

Also several ULCC posts talk of working less than 16 days, often 12 to 14. Again, on that 16 day stretch you're at company disposal. There will be some nice layovers (you'll need at least 2 - 24 hour blocks off in the 16 day tour.) You'll also likely get multiple time zone/body clock changes. Are you required to monitor company cell phone on layovers ?

Whereas on passenger side, ~ 1/4 or so of working days involve either a post 1500 show time, or a pre 1300 release. If you live in domicile, several chances to squeeze in a tennis game prior to your 3-4 day trip, or catch an afternoon baseball game upon completion of your work block. Furthermore, can tweak your schedule to get more AM's or PM's depending on whether you're a morning or night person.

OP should weigh whether he enjoys having some flexible control in his schedule, or if like maxjet can readily accept being at company disposal for 16 straight days, often on polar opposite body clock cycles within a few days.

Last edited by vroll1800; 05-21-2018 at 09:59 PM. Reason: corr.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:02 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by vroll1800 View Post
I'm not sure if that paragraph was directed at me. If it was, thanks for making insinuations about me without knowing me, or checking my profile. (The later would have dispelled at least one of your notions.)

Furthermore, I don't think prioritizing the innate human desire to exercise a certain degree of control over one's life makes one a crybaby, or prima donna.
OP mentioned that he found cargo airlines (K4 and 5Y in particular wrt this thread) to be interesting. Besides the boilerplate cargo ops vs passenger ops, he may have found home basing, and a long singular stretch off to be appealing. The later singular stretch off is the velvet glove.

The 16 to 17 day stretch on the road is the "hammer." Your A#$ belongs to company during that stretch. So, you're "ON" 1-16 June, but would like to have the 11th- 16th off and pick up 6 days somewhere else. Good luck with that. ACMI schedules are made with the assumption that you will be on that 16 day stretch.
Contrast this with many ULCC posts on tremendous flexibility, and ability to trade, pick up , and drop trips.

Also several ULCC posts talk of working less than 16 days, often 12 to 14. Again, on that 16 day stretch you're at company disposal. There will be some nice layovers (you'll need at least 2 - 24 hour blocks off in the 16 day tour.) You'll also likely get multiple time zone/body clock changes. Are you required to monitor company cell phone on layovers ?

Whereas on passenger side, ~ 1/4 or so of working days involve either a post 1500 show time, or a pre 1300 release. If you live in domicile, several chances to squeeze in a tennis game prior to your 3-4 day trip, or catch an afternoon baseball game upon completion of your work block. Furthermore, can tweak your schedule to get more AM's or PM's depending on whether you're a morning or night person.

OP should weigh whether he enjoys having some flexible control in his schedule, or if like maxjet can readily accept being at company disposal for 16 straight days, often on polar opposite body clock cycles within a few days.
The paragraph you refer to was not about you. You are right I don’t know you. What my question for you was, is what was your point? You have now answered that question. The way you originally wrote your comments was to me, unnecessarily critical. Every job in every industry has its good and bad. If the bad out weighs the good, and you have a choice, you move on. If the opposite is true, you stay. Things in ACMI are neither good nor bad. They just are. You either accept this or move on.
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