nitefr8dog

As far as limping....we have a retirement. The new hires that don't are not planning on staying. I think I heard 175k for the last few that left plus 2M+ in 401k...so I going to go out on a limb and say they will get by ok...

Lockheed

that's interesting considering DHL started the US express market before airbourne or fedex existed....I guess you mean the Germans didn't know anything about it...if that's what you mean then we can agree....

oh and do tell how many clapped out DC-9's and DC-8's you had in 2008? oh and 767's that couldn't carry containers on the upper deck

DC8DRIVER

Just to expand on this history, in 2008, Astar (formerly DHL Airways) had a contract in place with pay scales slightly higher that the current ABX pay scales ... AND a 15% (no match required) 401k contribution for retirement plan. When approached by DHL Worldwide (the Germans) to bid on flying 767's, our union said that we already had a contract in place with 767 pay scales (weight based, the same scale as the DC-8's) and we would not negotiate anything lower. It was at that point that the ABX pilots agreed to undercut our pay rates and won the bid effectively putting 500+ Astar pilots out of business.

Now, there are other players who will under bid ABX for the flying. 1224 has tried to unify the airlines flying DHL freight in order to promote a "race-to-the-top" instead of the usual "race-to-the-bottom" method of whipsawing our pilot groups. Unfortunately, sometimes pilots are their own worst enemies and simply give up on the fight instead of sticking together against this common enemy. I know the ABX guys are on board with the unity plan, but ATSG has introduced the ATI card into the game and consequently have started their own race to the bottom.

So, yes the bids for DHL flying will always go to the lowest bidder. Ten years ago ABX signed a deal with the devil and unfortunately, he has come to collect.

Let's also not forget that the decision to buy Airborne was just about the single worst decision that DHL ever made. They spent over a billion (with a B) dollars to buy an aging fleet, a very expensive airport (that they tried to use for 5 years and then abandoned), and a fleet of delivery vehicles. They also assumed and immediately forgave the huge $100,000,000 debt that Airborne had racked up by giving DHL 5 spent 767's in exchange. Bad decisions like this were made by the new German ownership of DHL and had nothing to do with the actions of the pilots at any of the airlines they used.

http://content.time.com/time/special...864556,00.html

nitefr8dog

Actually...when DHL bought Airborne they had 12 767 200's with cargo doors put in at mod..all the 354# heavy ones. But my point was the refleeting was in progress starting in 1997 first airplane arrived in 1998.A hugh mistake for Astar. Not the crews fault just a hugh mistake. Again nothing to sell. Try not to take it so personal.

Lockheed

scab got picked off an old wound...sorry
I been over it for a while

nitefr8dog

Well.....you missed a few items. The Germans bought Airborne the #3 overnight express carrier( that was profitable) in the US to compete with Federal and UPS. Problem being...they had no idea how to run US overnight express. Had they just changed the name and let the operation run itself they could have saved billions. And it was 11 767s 6 Pratt and 5 GE. (1 Pratt was ruined by a Mercury spill if I remember...the other "spent" 767s are still flying so the got about 8 yrs out of them) Also they gave that 100m to ABX retirement and severance because they dicked it up so bad. They also were "put" the parked DC9s and DC8s so they bought them too ...part of the original purchase agreement if they screwed everything up. But just like your aircraft they were not going to use them.But be that as it may. You still missed my point.....Astar had zero... again zero aircraft worth keeping and nobody including DHL wanted to pay for refleeting. The pilots could have taken 25% pay cuts and you were not getting aircraft. Just to late to start a refleet. IMO

nitefr8dog

Airbourne started flying overnight express freight from Hawaii to the U.S. in 1946....DHL 1969

ke4lir

Just a moot point, it's Airborne not Airbourne. Atleast that's what's on my bag tag...cheers

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av8or

If all that’s true, and our cargo door aircraft couldn’t have provided lift while we refleeted, wonder how they were able to continue to provide lift for another five years? My bad. I guess DHL’s entire plan all along was to build the $300 million dollar sort in CVG, mothball it for five years, move the entire operation to Wilmington, run TWO nightly sorts, (one for A, one for C), bring on a couple more contractors, (ATI, Southern) so that they could eventually shut that all down, move it back to CVG and get rid of Astar.... all so they could get unlimited access to ABX Air 767’s, most of which didn’t even have cargo doors when we got to Wilmington. Gotta hand it to the German’s that’s sixth dementional chess right there.

Not that any of that really mattered since ABX Air attorneys “correctly” pointed out in court that Astar Air Cargo/DHL Airways ALPA contract was invalid, because we weren’t covered under the Railway Labor Act.

It was Astar’s lousy airplanes and labor contract that wasn’t even legal under the RLA, thats why DHL went with ABX Air.
Yeah... ok. 👍🏼

Tango Uniform

FYI actually UPS started it in 1929 and stopped during the depression then started back up in 1953 using airlines.