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Old 05-26-2018, 01:08 PM   #11  
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Originally Posted by tiredofjrm View Post
Its just typical ATSG (Soaper) scare tactics. Sadly they don't realize that scaring the pilots here gets them to quit, not capitulate.

I am also actively seeking new employment. They've lost 4 pilots so far this month. I just talked to someone who's got a job next month and another one who has an interview. Plus one of the guys they just hired is already regretting coming here.

So it looks like more than 4 leaving next month.


This place is toxic. Get out while you can. We already took a concessionary contract in 2009. No way in hell am I giving away anything else. I'd rather burn it to the ground. I'm a no vote to anything less than getting back what we lost +.
^^^^^^What he said!
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:44 AM   #12  
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We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.

I guess they should know since they work with management so much.

I hope people keep bailing so movement keeps up.
BS.....the expense of a total payout all at the same time of ABX crewmembers retirement would probably tank ATSG.... and certainly not make Amazon too happy now that they are tied into the retirement as well.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:47 AM   #13  
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ATSG funds ABX retirement. Dissolving ABX would not require a total payout of retirement. That said, I think this rumor is either complete baloney or a negotiating tactic.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:15 AM   #14  
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ATSG funds ABX retirement. Dissolving ABX would not require a total payout of retirement. That said, I think this rumor is either complete baloney or a negotiating tactic.
It could if the majority of the crewmembers all took retirement...also since Amazon owns a portion of ATSG they also are responsible for an amount equal to their portion. That said, I say again it could bury ATSG. The retirement is also underfunded so that has implications. Alot comes into play if ATSG lets ABX wither away. The PBGC has directly tied aircraft as available assets to ABX retirement. It is not cut and dried. I do agree with it being complete baloney though.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:23 AM   #15  
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ATSG funds ABX retirement. Dissolving ABX would not require a total payout of retirement. That said, I think this rumor is either complete baloney or a negotiating tactic.

I am not a finance guy so I donít know for sure, but if ABX management filed bankruptcy wouldnít that null and void any contracts and relieve ATSG from paying ABXís retirement. Isnít this why a lot of companies create parent companies and sub companies to be able to file bankruptcy as a business tactic or not be held liable for lawsuits because they are legally separate companies. It reminds me of when Frank Larenzo filed bankruptcy with Continental Airlines and operated the company with money from the parent company Texas Air Corporation. Bankruptcy has been used by many Aviation companies to get out of contracts and/or aircraft leases.

Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.

Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:56 AM   #16  
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For the above mentioned scenario, 1224 was smart and negotiated the pension to be attached to ATSG and not ABX. Even Soapy didnt realize this little fact when he was bragging about shutting us down and screwing us in our pension. The pension was recently funded to approx 110%.
Incase the shtf and they close ABX, I would like to extend my thanks to all the ATI guys who will be working to pay my pension. Thanks guys!
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:12 AM   #17  
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I am not a finance guy so I donít know for sure, but if ABX management filed bankruptcy wouldnít that null and void any contracts and relieve ATSG from paying ABXís retirement. Isnít this why a lot of companies create parent companies and sub companies to be able to file bankruptcy as a business tactic or not be held liable for lawsuits because they are legally separate companies. It reminds me of when Frank Larenzo filed bankruptcy with Continental Airlines and operated the company with money from the parent company Texas Air Corporation. Bankruptcy has been used by many Aviation companies to get out of contracts and/or aircraft leases.

Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.

Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.
Not if ATSG lives on....also the PBGC can now take assets (ABX aircraft on certificate before ATI, CAM, etc) to fund it if ATSG went under. ATI pilots have been working to fund our retirement and will be for years to come. I actually looked at it as a positive those idiots did not get a retirement...it helps fund the ABX pilots retirement. One other thing....the bankruptcy laws changed quite a bit after Delta and United dumped their retirements on the tax payers.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:42 AM   #18  
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Originally Posted by nitefr8dog View Post
It could if the majority of the crewmembers all took retirement...also since Amazon owns a portion of ATSG they also are responsible for an amount equal to their portion. That said, I say again it could bury ATSG. The retirement is also underfunded so that has implications. Alot comes into play if ATSG lets ABX wither away. The PBGC has directly tied aircraft as available assets to ABX retirement. It is not cut and dried. I do agree with it being complete baloney though.
I don't think owning stock in a company exposes you to a pension liability.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:28 AM   #19  
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I don't think owning stock in a company exposes you to a pension liability.
You are 100% correct, but also Amazon doesn't own any of ATSG anyways- they have the right to purchase 19.9% at a set price, but have not exercised that right. Amazon has no current equity interest in ATSG. ATSG carries the value of those warrants on the books, which is what led to the 'fake loss' last Q when they revalued them to current market price (and also led to the filing that confused basically everyone- https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...603dsc13ga.htm )

that filing DOES NOT mean Amazon owns shares.
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:16 PM   #20  
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ATI pilots have been working to fund our retirement and will be for years to come. I actually looked at it as a positive those idiots did not get a retirement...it helps fund the ABX pilots retirement.
And donít forget the bonus gifts!!!

They are doing it for less money than their peers at K4 and Omni and paying for it with vacation on their off days!
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