ABX spooling down
01-03-2019, 11:29 AM
#261
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Cujo665
or Omni could end up a fenced carrier, and transfer only be applicable to subsidiaries that were owned at the time of DOS. Could end up like TWA in St Louis after AA bought them. A fenced off base. Omni could end up a fenced off carrier.
They have no problem hiring at Omni, so I could definitely see the company also taking the position that Omni is fenced, forcing guys to ATI which would help staffing there.
What do you think ATSG would do?
They have no problem hiring at Omni, so I could definitely see the company also taking the position that Omni is fenced, forcing guys to ATI which would help staffing there.
What do you think ATSG would do?
01-03-2019, 01:19 PM
#262
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,127
Originally Posted by EndOfTimes
Not a lawyer, but that would be a tough sell considering the language in the side letter addressing this issue. It specifically states that any future carrier that comes under the ATSG corporate umbrella would be subject to the provisions of the letter.
01-03-2019, 03:03 PM
#263
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 638
This side letter is so much ado about nothing. If its true (I don't work at ATSG but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) its simply preferential hiring. That means the company gets to pick and choose who from ABX they want and who they don't. At worst they just pay more for said pilot than a true new hire since they get longevity.
The legal battle over something like this is moot because if they really didn't want to deal with the hassle they just simply wouldn't hire anyone after their preferential interview. Just shut ABX down and call it a day. Ultimately though I think it would benefit them to just go along with the agreement and fill their classes with any ABX guy that they want to offer the job to.
The legal battle over something like this is moot because if they really didn't want to deal with the hassle they just simply wouldn't hire anyone after their preferential interview. Just shut ABX down and call it a day. Ultimately though I think it would benefit them to just go along with the agreement and fill their classes with any ABX guy that they want to offer the job to.
01-03-2019, 03:31 PM
#264
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by iPilot
This side letter is so much ado about nothing. If its true (I don't work at ATSG but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) its simply preferential hiring. That means the company gets to pick and choose who from ABX they want and who they don't. At worst they just pay more for said pilot than a true new hire since they get longevity.
The legal battle over something like this is moot because if they really didn't want to deal with the hassle they just simply wouldn't hire anyone after their preferential interview. Just shut ABX down and call it a day. Ultimately though I think it would benefit them to just go along with the agreement and fill their classes with any ABX guy that they want to offer the job to.
The legal battle over something like this is moot because if they really didn't want to deal with the hassle they just simply wouldn't hire anyone after their preferential interview. Just shut ABX down and call it a day. Ultimately though I think it would benefit them to just go along with the agreement and fill their classes with any ABX guy that they want to offer the job to.
01-03-2019, 04:29 PM
#265
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Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by EndOfTimes
You couldn’t be more wrong. This letter has already been invoked back in 2009. If ABX furloughs ATI must hire any furloughed ABX crew member in seniority order before hiring off the street. No interview, no preferential anything. There are former ABX guys still at ATI from the last time the letter was used in the 2009 furlough. Now Omni is also in the same position as an ATSG carrier.
Oh the nerve....Please say it ain’t so !!
01-04-2019, 04:46 AM
#267
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by iPilot
This side letter is so much ado about nothing. If its true (I don't work at ATSG but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) its simply preferential hiring. That means the company gets to pick and choose who from ABX they want and who they don't. At worst they just pay more for said pilot than a true new hire since they get longevity.
The legal battle over something like this is moot because if they really didn't want to deal with the hassle they just simply wouldn't hire anyone after their preferential interview. Just shut ABX down and call it a day. Ultimately though I think it would benefit them to just go along with the agreement and fill their classes with any ABX guy that they want to offer the job to.
The legal battle over something like this is moot because if they really didn't want to deal with the hassle they just simply wouldn't hire anyone after their preferential interview. Just shut ABX down and call it a day. Ultimately though I think it would benefit them to just go along with the agreement and fill their classes with any ABX guy that they want to offer the job to.
November 4, 2009 Captain Joe Muckle, President Teamsters Local 1224 2754 Old State Route 73 Wilmington, OH 45177 Dear Captain Muckle: Air Transport Services Group and its successors (ATSG) shall secure the commitment from each air carrier within its corporate structure, presently Capital Cargo, Inc. and ATI, Inc., and from any other airline that may come within its corporate structure in the future, that in lieu of new hires, the carriers shall recall crewmembers who occupy a position on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember Seniority List, including Professional Flight Engineers (Professional Flight Engineers can be recalled only to PFE positions). The recall shall be in order of seniority (Date of Hire), and the recall procedure shall be that as set forth in the collective bargaining agreement between Airline Professionals Association, Teamsters Local 1224 and ABX Air, Inc. (“ABX”), except that bypassing a recall to another ATSG carrier shall not be considered a refusal under Article 7(G). ABX crewmembers who are recalled under this Letter of Agreement shall maintain their years of longevity accrued at ABX for purposes of pay and benefits at the other ATSG carrier. Their relative seniority with the carrier to which they are recalled shall start at the bottom of that carrier’s crewmember seniority list. ABX crewmembers who are recalled under the provisions of this Letter of Agreement shall retain their recall rights to ABX, except that such crewmembers shall not be eligible for recall to ABX for a period of two years from the date of recall to another ATSG carrier. Additionally, any recalled crewmember who successfully upgrades either in position or equipment will be subject to any seat or equipment freeze that applies at that carrier and will not be eligible to transfer back to ABX Air, Inc. until the end of that freeze. Sincerely, Agreed to and accepted this 4th day of November 2009: Article 26 (264) 2009 Contract
01-04-2019, 08:55 AM
#268
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 493
Just looking at that language and absent any other information, an argument could be made that it applies only to those pilots on furlough as of the date of the letter. (That doesn't mean it's a winning argument,
but the language is certainly susceptible to pushback from the parent.) There is no language that clearly makes it applicable to pilots furloughed in the future. One good feature is that the parent company is on the hook for damages if the owned carrier refuses to take the ABX guys.
but the language is certainly susceptible to pushback from the parent.) There is no language that clearly makes it applicable to pilots furloughed in the future. One good feature is that the parent company is on the hook for damages if the owned carrier refuses to take the ABX guys.
01-04-2019, 09:09 AM
#269
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by wjcandee
Just looking at that language and absent any other information, an argument could be made that it applies only to those pilots on furlough as of the date of the letter. (That doesn't mean it's a winning argument,
but the language is certainly susceptible to pushback from the parent.) There is no language that clearly makes it applicable to pilots furloughed in the future. One good feature is that the parent company is on the hook for damages if the owned carrier refuses to take the ABX guys.
but the language is certainly susceptible to pushback from the parent.) There is no language that clearly makes it applicable to pilots furloughed in the future. One good feature is that the parent company is on the hook for damages if the owned carrier refuses to take the ABX guys.
The good news is at 12yr pay at Omni for a furloughed new hire with ATSG making up the difference they would probably be making more than 12 yr pay at ABX....win win.
Don't think Hete is not aware of this.
01-04-2019, 09:34 AM
#270
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Posts: 93
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
Well considering you have no idea what you are talking about...here it is.
November 4, 2009 Captain Joe Muckle, President Teamsters Local 1224 2754 Old State Route 73 Wilmington, OH 45177 Dear Captain Muckle: Air Transport Services Group and its successors (ATSG) shall secure the commitment from each air carrier within its corporate structure, presently Capital Cargo, Inc. and ATI, Inc., and from any other airline that may come within its corporate structure in the future, that in lieu of new hires, the carriers shall recall crewmembers who occupy a position on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember Seniority List, including Professional Flight Engineers (Professional Flight Engineers can be recalled only to PFE positions). The recall shall be in order of seniority (Date of Hire), and the recall procedure shall be that as set forth in the collective bargaining agreement between Airline Professionals Association, Teamsters Local 1224 and ABX Air, Inc. (“ABX”), except that bypassing a recall to another ATSG carrier shall not be considered a refusal under Article 7(G). ABX crewmembers who are recalled under this Letter of Agreement shall maintain their years of longevity accrued at ABX for purposes of pay and benefits at the other ATSG carrier. Their relative seniority with the carrier to which they are recalled shall start at the bottom of that carrier’s crewmember seniority list. ABX crewmembers who are recalled under the provisions of this Letter of Agreement shall retain their recall rights to ABX, except that such crewmembers shall not be eligible for recall to ABX for a period of two years from the date of recall to another ATSG carrier. Additionally, any recalled crewmember who successfully upgrades either in position or equipment will be subject to any seat or equipment freeze that applies at that carrier and will not be eligible to transfer back to ABX Air, Inc. until the end of that freeze. Sincerely, Agreed to and accepted this 4th day of November 2009: Article 26 (264) 2009 Contract
November 4, 2009 Captain Joe Muckle, President Teamsters Local 1224 2754 Old State Route 73 Wilmington, OH 45177 Dear Captain Muckle: Air Transport Services Group and its successors (ATSG) shall secure the commitment from each air carrier within its corporate structure, presently Capital Cargo, Inc. and ATI, Inc., and from any other airline that may come within its corporate structure in the future, that in lieu of new hires, the carriers shall recall crewmembers who occupy a position on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember Seniority List, including Professional Flight Engineers (Professional Flight Engineers can be recalled only to PFE positions). The recall shall be in order of seniority (Date of Hire), and the recall procedure shall be that as set forth in the collective bargaining agreement between Airline Professionals Association, Teamsters Local 1224 and ABX Air, Inc. (“ABX”), except that bypassing a recall to another ATSG carrier shall not be considered a refusal under Article 7(G). ABX crewmembers who are recalled under this Letter of Agreement shall maintain their years of longevity accrued at ABX for purposes of pay and benefits at the other ATSG carrier. Their relative seniority with the carrier to which they are recalled shall start at the bottom of that carrier’s crewmember seniority list. ABX crewmembers who are recalled under the provisions of this Letter of Agreement shall retain their recall rights to ABX, except that such crewmembers shall not be eligible for recall to ABX for a period of two years from the date of recall to another ATSG carrier. Additionally, any recalled crewmember who successfully upgrades either in position or equipment will be subject to any seat or equipment freeze that applies at that carrier and will not be eligible to transfer back to ABX Air, Inc. until the end of that freeze. Sincerely, Agreed to and accepted this 4th day of November 2009: Article 26 (264) 2009 Contract
How would this apply if ABX Air (Hete) was to surrender the GB certificate and the company became insolvent? The seniority list would cease to exist. Just playing the devils' advocate here...
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