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Old 01-06-2019, 02:57 PM   #291  
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ATSG wonít be doing ACMI flights in 5 years. Skip this dumpster fire and secure a seniority number with a reputable carrier.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:44 PM   #292  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
Post 271 has zero contract language.

Could ask you the same....
I care because I donít want to see guys making plans thinking there is a guarantee that isnít really there.

Winding down doesnít mean furloughs. It means reducing flying and staffing (attrition) until you reach a point of telling everybody, donít come in to work anymore. Company ceases operations. Thatís not a furlough.
How about not trying to fix problems you don't have.....they are all big boys they can make their own decisions without your help. If... and again if ...they would "wind" it down it would be through a reduction in force..furlough in other words. Everyone on the bottom of the list go to ATI or Omni if they are hiring...done deal. What else should we try to fix thats not our problem? Paint schemes? That could be another 75 to 100 posts!
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:47 PM   #293  
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Nothing you mention is preclusive.

And the point is not that the argument on either side would be guaranteed to win, because nobody can predict that with absolute certainty. The fact is that all the company needs is a colorable argument that wouldn't get the lawyers disbarred in order to tie the union up in litigation/arbitration for years before Person 1 was hired at ATI or Omni. Look at what 1224 is doing on the Atlas/Southern combination: (admittedly oversimplifying) it is saying that the plain wording of two contract provisions should be ignored. I doubt the lawyers are making that "creative" an argument because they're confident they're gonna win that one; I presume they're making it because: (1) like every Hail Mary pass, there is a slight possibility that they might win; and (2) it ties things up and interferes with the company, which is leverage towards a negotiated settlement.

My only point in engaging about any discussion of all of this is just to say that if ABX management is as devious as people believe, one might not want to just assume that other ATSG airlines will ever actually be forced to give jobs to ABX pilots.
The real point is ...nobody cares..
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:57 PM   #294  
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Winding down doesnít mean furloughs. It means reducing flying and staffing (attrition) until you reach a point of telling everybody, donít come in to work anymore. Company ceases operations. Thatís not a furlough.
The only way to tell a pilot to not come in to work anymore is by furloughing them.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:05 PM   #295  
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The real point is ...nobody cares..
Cant speak for OMNI, but ATI doesn't want negativity over here...There's a lot of good ABX guys out there and they're all welcome over here, but not so much the ABX guys on here that stir the pot and spread hate.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:15 AM   #296  
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Cant speak for OMNI, but ATI doesn't want negativity over here...There's a lot of good ABX guys out there and they're all welcome over here, but not so much the ABX guys on here that stir the pot and spread hate.
Won't really have a choice....
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:58 AM   #297  
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Cant speak for OMNI, but ATI doesn't want negativity over here...There's a lot of good ABX guys out there and they're all welcome over here, but not so much the ABX guys on here that stir the pot and spread hate.
A pilot with a bad attitude coming from a forced displacement from any airline would be like a Chihuahua entering a Wolf den.

Either they survive by keeping their mouth shut, or get eaten in training.

My experience, is pilots with experience on type and attitude donít usually make it to the line.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:28 AM   #298  
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A pilot with a bad attitude coming from a forced displacement from any airline would be like a Chihuahua entering a Wolf den.

Either they survive by keeping their mouth shut, or get eaten in training.

My experience, is pilots with experience on type and attitude don’t usually make it to the line.
I am going to go out on a limb and say ....most pilots who have been through multiple airlines and 20+ yrs of ckrides know the drill. Cooperate graduate...its not rocket science. Having been thru 3 airlines and 6 aircraft in 6 yrs and an instructor on 3 of those aircraft at 2 airlines.....I think I can safely say at either Omni or ATI, ABX pilots would do just fine...we had furloughed pilots go to both. Nobody complained.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:41 AM   #299  
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How about not trying to fix problems you don't have.....they are all big boys they can make their own decisions without your help. If... and again if ...they would "wind" it down it would be through a reduction in force..furlough in other words. Everyone on the bottom of the list go to ATI or Omni if they are hiring...done deal. What else should we try to fix thats not our problem? Paint schemes? That could be another 75 to 100 posts!
All they need to do is slow hiring... say by increasing failures to 60%... or just reducing hiring....
they can claim theyíre trying to hire while staffing drops. When it gets low enough from normal attrition, doors close.

817 Comair pilots on property when they were told donít come in anymore, company closed. Thatís not a furlough.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:42 AM   #300  
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Originally Posted by Larry in TN View Post
The only way to tell a pilot to not come in to work anymore is by furloughing them.
Tell that to 817 Comair Pilots who’s job ceased to exist because the company ceased to exist.

I hope it works out, lots of great guys over there.
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