ABX spooling down
#11
Its just typical ATSG (Soaper) scare tactics. Sadly they don't realize that scaring the pilots here gets them to quit, not capitulate.
I am also actively seeking new employment. They've lost 4 pilots so far this month. I just talked to someone who's got a job next month and another one who has an interview. Plus one of the guys they just hired is already regretting coming here.
So it looks like more than 4 leaving next month.
This place is toxic. Get out while you can. We already took a concessionary contract in 2009. No way in hell am I giving away anything else. I'd rather burn it to the ground. I'm a no vote to anything less than getting back what we lost +.
I am also actively seeking new employment. They've lost 4 pilots so far this month. I just talked to someone who's got a job next month and another one who has an interview. Plus one of the guys they just hired is already regretting coming here.
So it looks like more than 4 leaving next month.
This place is toxic. Get out while you can. We already took a concessionary contract in 2009. No way in hell am I giving away anything else. I'd rather burn it to the ground. I'm a no vote to anything less than getting back what we lost +.
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,807
BS.....the expense of a total payout all at the same time of ABX crewmembers retirement would probably tank ATSG.... and certainly not make Amazon too happy now that they are tied into the retirement as well.
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,807
It could if the majority of the crewmembers all took retirement...also since Amazon owns a portion of ATSG they also are responsible for an amount equal to their portion. That said, I say again it could bury ATSG. The retirement is also underfunded so that has implications. Alot comes into play if ATSG lets ABX wither away. The PBGC has directly tied aircraft as available assets to ABX retirement. It is not cut and dried. I do agree with it being complete baloney though.
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 28
I am not a finance guy so I don’t know for sure, but if ABX management filed bankruptcy wouldn’t that null and void any contracts and relieve ATSG from paying ABX’s retirement. Isn’t this why a lot of companies create parent companies and sub companies to be able to file bankruptcy as a business tactic or not be held liable for lawsuits because they are legally separate companies. It reminds me of when Frank Larenzo filed bankruptcy with Continental Airlines and operated the company with money from the parent company Texas Air Corporation. Bankruptcy has been used by many Aviation companies to get out of contracts and/or aircraft leases.
Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.
Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 896
For the above mentioned scenario, 1224 was smart and negotiated the pension to be attached to ATSG and not ABX. Even Soapy didnt realize this little fact when he was bragging about shutting us down and screwing us in our pension. The pension was recently funded to approx 110%.
Incase the shtf and they close ABX, I would like to extend my thanks to all the ATI guys who will be working to pay my pension. Thanks guys!
Incase the shtf and they close ABX, I would like to extend my thanks to all the ATI guys who will be working to pay my pension. Thanks guys!
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,807
I am not a finance guy so I don’t know for sure, but if ABX management filed bankruptcy wouldn’t that null and void any contracts and relieve ATSG from paying ABX’s retirement. Isn’t this why a lot of companies create parent companies and sub companies to be able to file bankruptcy as a business tactic or not be held liable for lawsuits because they are legally separate companies. It reminds me of when Frank Larenzo filed bankruptcy with Continental Airlines and operated the company with money from the parent company Texas Air Corporation. Bankruptcy has been used by many Aviation companies to get out of contracts and/or aircraft leases.
Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.
Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.
Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.
Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: retired
Posts: 560
It could if the majority of the crewmembers all took retirement...also since Amazon owns a portion of ATSG they also are responsible for an amount equal to their portion. That said, I say again it could bury ATSG. The retirement is also underfunded so that has implications. Alot comes into play if ATSG lets ABX wither away. The PBGC has directly tied aircraft as available assets to ABX retirement. It is not cut and dried. I do agree with it being complete baloney though.
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 221
that filing DOES NOT mean Amazon owns shares.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Fetal and Fatigued
Posts: 349
They are doing it for less money than their peers at K4 and Omni and paying for it with vacation on their off days!
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